The next scene!

[Firm1]

Hello again. So, I just finished another scene and I feel like I'm a roll with this story. However, everyone always thinks their work is awesome, which is why I need sound input from you guys.

Before you read, let me give you some back story. So, if you read my earlier post, the woman in this scene was an aspiring artist but didn't have a knack for it so she decided on a second interest, which was biology. While she was exploring art, she met a guy named Henry Felstedt who eventually grew to become a well-established photographer. They get married, he continues to pursue art, while she gives up and goes for biology. He married her because he expected her to fail as an artist and saw her tragedy as a work of art. She married him because he was the closest thing she could get to making her dreams come true. If she can't be an artist, at least she can marry a famous one and at least immerse herself in the scene, while pursuing her own identity as a biologist.

Of course, since her husband saw her more as an object rather than a human being, she began falling out of love with him and started cheating on him with a grad student in the biology department. His name is Greg Sorin. Although successful in academics, he's basically your James Holmes type of guy whose weird and socially unaccepted. However, due to the circumstances he just happened to have met this woman at just the right time. She's really just looking to hook up with someone and since this dude isn't half bad and since they work together, it just sort of happened.

Now this guy, Greg, basically feels like he was shunned from society throughout his life. Like, everyone was sort of always against him because he was smarter than the average bear and a little different from his peers. So, he sort of grew up with this mindset that everything he achieved was because of him alone and that everyone is against him. Also, since he didn't have a social life, his academic success was considered the single most important thing in his life...next to this woman, of course. The woman was important to him because it was the only person who ever showed any sort of affection towards him, aside from his parents.

Anyway, this scene shows him coming back from a workout and having a conversation with the woman. Its intended to expand on how he feels about losing her along with his research grant. He feels like the walls are sort of closing in on him and the few things that actually gave him meaning are beginning to dissipate.

Let me know what you think, guys.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

INT. UNIVERSITY SWIMMING POOL – DAY

CAMERA PANS DOWN, showing an Olympic sized swimming pool. In the center of the lane, GREG SORIN is doing the breast-stroke, making his way towards the camera.

He makes a hard turn and continues swimming, back to the other side.

SIDE SHOT, as he glides through the water.

CRANE SHOT DOWNWARD, the water is calm but you can hear someone coming up. Within moments, Greg comes into frame. As soon as his hand touches the side of the pool, he lifts himself up and catches his breath of fresh air.

FRONTAL SHOT, Greg props himself up toward the side, still huffing from the several laps he just finished. He takes his goggles off and places them on the side as he looked over towards a group of young men talking to each other. They appeared like good friends who were sharing a good laugh.

Greg continues staring at them as he wipes his face, focusing his attention. His lips, which were at first straightened, began to slowly sag.

ECU ON GREG’S EYES, he has a very intensified look.

HARD CUT TO

EXT. FRONT ENTRENCE OF THE UNIVERSITY GYM – DAY

ECU OF DOOR, it quickly swings open as Greg exits the building with a gym bag. His hair is slightly wet from the recent swim.

WIDE SHOT, As soon as he came out, he took his cell phone out and began dialing a number. He slowly walked off to the side of the building.

MCU ON GREG

WOMAN’S VOICE
Hello?...Hello?

He remained silent while he leaned his arm on the wall of the building.

WOMAN’S VOICE
Sigh…Greg…

GREG
(slightly nervous)
Yeah…Yeah It’s me again.

WOMAN’S VOICE
I told you not to call me anymore.

GREG
I know. I was just. I…I just need to know why you’re going back to him.

WOMAN’S VOICE
Jesus, Greg…

GREG
Is it the research grant?

WOMAN’S VOICE
God! The fucking research grant again! For the hundredth time, our relationship has nothing to do with the success of your research.

GREG
So then, why are you with him when he doesn’t even care about you?!

WOMAN’S VOICE
Because!...It’s…It’s because…I don’t know why, Greg.

GREG
It’s because he’s everything you want. And, I’m just a failure.

WOMAN’S VOICE
Look, I didn’t break up with you because you lost the grant. You’re not a failure…I mean Christ, we weren’t even really going out.

There was another short pause. A couple walks past Greg before she speaks again.

WOMAN’S VOICE
We can’t keep seeing each other, Greg. You know this.

GREG
I need you!

WOMAN’S VOICE
You know I can’t solve your problems.

GREG
Problems? This isn’t about my problems! It’s about us!

WOMAN’S VOICE
(sarcastic chuckle)
Right…It’s about us…You really wanna know why I chose him over you? Because you’re too needy…And, I can’t help you when I can’t even help myself right now.

GREG
But, I love you.

WOMAN’S VOICE
Well, I don’t!

There was a long pause.

WOMAN’S VOICE
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to say it like that…You just need a break, Greg. Take some time off. Forget about me and forget about the research. There’s nothing wrong with a little vacation.

GREG
(gives a slight laugh of hysteria)
No…No. I don’t think I need a vacation this time.

WOMAN’S VOICE
Then, what do you want from me?

GREG
I just want you to love me back. No one else will. No one ever has. Please…I just…I just feel like everyone’s working against me.

WOMAN’S VOICE
No one’s against you, Greg.

GREG
Then, come back to me…otherwise…otherwise, I might…

WOMAN’S VOICE
What?

GREG
…Nothing.

WOMAN’S VOICE
Listen, I gotta go. I’ll see you at work.

GREG
Yeah…

WOMAN’S VOICE
And, don’t call this number again.

With that, she hung up. Greg lowered his phone and placed it back in his pocket as he turned around, slowly walking back towards the front.

FRONTAL SHOT, Greg walks towards the camera with a complete look of despair and anger. He looks like he’s about to make a mistake. Eventually his entire left half of his face covers half the screen.

FADE TO BLACK.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

This is in a shooting script format. Are you shooting this story yourself?

 

[Firm1]

This is in a shooting script format. Are you shooting this story yourself?

Yup, which is obviously going to be problematic since I need an actor like Jake Gyllenhal, lol. But, don't we all?

I also forgot to note that with this dialogue sequence, you're not getting the full picture just yet. You know he loves this woman whose fooling around with him behind her husband and you know he's making a big deal about her not wanting to see him. You also learn that his research proposal didn't come through so he's failing as a grad student. And to top it off, you get this sense that he's very paranoid and thinks that society is always working against him. However, you don't know why he's making such a big deal about a break up and you don't know why he's so paranoid and distraught about the failed research grant.

Obviously, these are things that would upset anyone but in this scene, you see a man whose literally on the verge of snapping. You don't really get this from the script but, its my intent to have Greg act overly emotional and show hints of erraticism (kind of like Donnie Darko in some of the scenes). So of course, the question then becomes, "Well, why is he overly upset?" That's a question that gets wrapped up towards the end, once you find out more about Greg.

I guess I picked this character type because even though the public shooter is used in movies, no one ever seems to go in depth with the character. It's always, "I'm just tired of stupid people". The problem with that is, why? I mean, we're all tired of stupid people and we all see the World as an irrational place but that doesn't mean we're all going to pick up a gun and go out on a shooting spree. So, my hope with this movie is to create a conversation with the audience and get them to really think about the distinct differences between public shooters and everyone else.

 

[Filman]

Nice. Feels authentic and even rewarding towards the end. The worst thought I get during this scene is "it's one of these scenes".

 

[directorik]

I know you are looking for comments on dialogue but I can't
get past you using camera terms incorrectly. I hate being so
petty but I can't help it. Then there are problems:

"As soon as he came out, he took his cell phone out and began dialing a number. He slowly walked off to the side of the building"

This reads like past tense - as if this happened earlier and isn't
happening right now in the present. Is the entire conversation
just Greg walking in medium close up? When you set up each
shot in the beginning I'm expecting you to continue with each
shot all the way through.

I saw no problem with the dialogue. It's really difficult to have
an opinion because even though you give some background I
don't fully understand what's going on. But it feels like a conversation
two people would have.

 

[Firm1]

I know you are looking for comments on dialogue but I can't
get past you using camera terms incorrectly. I hate being so
petty but I can't help it. Then there are problems:

"As soon as he came out, he took his cell phone out and began dialing a number. He slowly walked off to the side of the building"

This reads like past tense - as if this happened earlier and isn't
happening right now in the present. Is the entire conversation
just Greg walking in medium close up? When you set up each
shot in the beginning I'm expecting you to continue with each
shot all the way through.

I saw no problem with the dialogue. It's really difficult to have
an opinion because even though you give some background I
don't fully understand what's going on. But it feels like a conversation
two people would have.

Excellent! And yes, I know the formatting is horrible because I've been rushing through the first draft. I didn't mean to put that in the past tense. And yes, its basically a continuous MCU. I'm just really bad at writing out the technical words for everything when I'm zooming through the first draft. Obviously, I'm going to have a lot of editing to work on.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[directorik]

I'm just really bad at writing out the technical words for everything when I'm zooming through the first draft.

That's why the writer should stick to the story. Even a writer
who is planning to direct. Zoom through your first draft without
thinking of technical words and camera angles. Carefully work
through your second and third drafts with no thought of what
will be happening on set or how you, as the director, will
communicate with the crew. When the story and characters
are exactly the way you want then you can go back and add
all the technical words and camera angles.

Especially if you are planning to ask your fellow writers for input
on first drafts. That way we can concentrate on your writing and
not get bogged down in your technical and camera term mistakes.

 

[Firm1]

That's why the writer should stick to the story. Even a writer
who is planning to direct. Zoom through your first draft without
thinking of technical words and camera angles. Carefully work
through your second and third drafts with no thought of what
will be happening on set or how you, as the director, will
communicate with the crew. When the story and characters
are exactly the way you want then you can go back and add
all the technical words and camera angles.

Especially if you are planning to ask your fellow writers for input
on first drafts. That way we can concentrate on your writing and
not get bogged down in your technical and camera term mistakes.

Ah, I see.

 

[AnywhereButHollywood]

Description should be in present tense. Totally weird reading description in past tense.

Also, loooong scene for it to be nothing but one person talking to another on a cell phone.

Cut it down, or at the very least, intercut between the two speakers.

I can see a scene like that working in a single shot, with the camera steady on your protagonist, but the dialog and performance would have to be extraordinary for that approach to work. You might also consider having him do something interesting while on the phone. Something to give the scene a little spin, like, I don't know... walking through a playground with lots of little kids around as he swears and yells. Just off the top of my head.

Oh, actually, he's not the one who swears. Okay, how about if he's in a really quiet place surrounded by people, completely unaware of how he's pouring his heart out in public? Until he hangs up. And even then, he doesn't care, he's so distraught.

 

[AnywhereButHollywood]

One more thing:

What does "about to make a mistake" actually look like?

 

[Firm1]

One more thing:

What does "about to make a mistake" actually look like?

First, great advice. I'll have to change it so that he's in a more quiet area. Second, by "about to make a mistake", I mean as though he's on the verge of going nuts and killing a bunch of people. I met a guy at work who acted just like that once when he confided in me. His eyes teared up, his voice got shaky, and he kept making these weird faces like he was about to scream. The best example I can give is towards the end of Donnie Darko.

 

[AnywhereButHollywood]

Donnie Darko! One of my favorite movies!

Gotta add that to my profile.

 

[Firm1]

Donnie Darko! One of my favorite movies!

Gotta add that to my profile.

Yeah the second one sucked but the first one was flawless. Its a perfect example of how you can fuse an interesting story with theoretical concepts in physics. Every time I try to do that, though, I end up with a really boring movie that's too dialogue driven and/or confusing. It basically turns into a research paper.

 

[FantasySciFi]

One of the tricky things for us in giving feedback is that while you've been living the story in your head, along with all the characters' back stories, we're only seeing the snippets. That can sometimes make it frustrating for you and us. Rather than feed the group scene by scene and then have to add justifications, you would be better to write a complete draft. You can save it as a PDF (preserving the formatting) and put it on a publicly viewable site, like GoogleDocs or MediaFire. One, it would eliminate the format issues. Two, it would make it easier to comment with a full understanding of your story, the structure, and the dynamics. You've mentioned that you aren't time constrained at the moment since you don't have a crew, talent, or locations set up. What does or doesn't work in an isolated scene may make sense and work in the full context of the short.

A visual conveys 55% of the information, dialogue about 30%, and sound/lighting can provide 15% of the feel to a movie. So "show, don't tell" is not just about pacing but an essential part of the film experience.

While you see it playing out in your head, that's not what is making it into your script. "Greg has an intensified look." What does that mean? Greg is sexually interested or intimidated by the other swimmers? When I first read that, I thought he was attracted to them. He went from tight lipped to mouth hanging open. Have Greg scowl, thrust himself out of the water and storm off as they laugh. The audience member will not have the benefit of your explanation.

What you hear in your head would sound very drawn out on the screen. Ordinary dialogue often appears three times longer than scripted dialogue on the screen. Reality TV only looks 'real' because so much dialogue is edited out (one day edited to 20 second soundbytes). Movie "small talk" is very abbreviated compared to real life. We are extraordinarily redundant.

What I see is a guy leaning against a wall sobbing on a cell phone. Break up the dialogue by putting in some actions that he does--"his fist hits the wall intermittently, picking up intensity as his tone becomes agitated", "he picks up a rock, weighs it in his hand, then hurls it", etc. Show the reader/audience that he's becoming more agitated to the point of "making a mistake". The dialogue, by itself, is insufficient to convey that scene, yet that's all we're given. To me, it simply reads emo.

What kind of mistake? He's going to get drunk? Pick up a hooker and get an STD? Nothing suggests he's going to get violent. Maybe have him scream and pound the wall when she hangs up. Show us something. Otherwise, I think he's just going to his car to cry.

Having the fully completed script would be more beneficial to us and you for feedback. Telling us how we don't understand is right on the money, we have nothing else to go on. Generally, the first 20% of the movie is the teaser, introduces the main character(s), and introduces the general problem to be solved. For a 40 minute short, that has to happen in the first 6-10 pages approximately. You've dropped us into scenes without the benefit of that introduction. As a result, we can only hazard guesses. A lot of the comments we make are directed at common problems of new screenwriters. Since you're writing this to produce yourself, there are practical considerations that most new filmmakers don't think about especially when they want to submit for festivals.

Since you want to make the best production, it would be best to write the complete script and then solicit feedback. It saves you having to fully explain the scene. Ideally, you want the movie to do that on its own. And the best way to find out if it does, is to just to put it out there. Then you'll get the clearest feedback of where you need to work on character, plot and/or dialogue.

 

[Firm1]

One of the tricky things for us in giving feedback is that while you've been living the story in your head, along with all the characters' back stories, we're only seeing the snippets. That can sometimes make it frustrating for you and us. Rather than feed the group scene by scene and then have to add justifications, you would be better to write a complete draft. You can save it as a PDF (preserving the formatting) and put it on a publicly viewable site, like GoogleDocs or MediaFire. One, it would eliminate the format issues. Two, it would make it easier to comment with a full understanding of your story, the structure, and the dynamics. You've mentioned that you aren't time constrained at the moment since you don't have a crew, talent, or locations set up. What does or doesn't work in an isolated scene may make sense and work in the full context of the short.

A visual conveys 55% of the information, dialogue about 30%, and sound/lighting can provide 15% of the feel to a movie. So "show, don't tell" is not just about pacing but an essential part of the film experience.

While you see it playing out in your head, that's not what is making it into your script. "Greg has an intensified look." What does that mean? Greg is sexually interested or intimidated by the other swimmers? When I first read that, I thought he was attracted to them. He went from tight lipped to mouth hanging open. Have Greg scowl, thrust himself out of the water and storm off as they laugh. The audience member will not have the benefit of your explanation.

What you hear in your head would sound very drawn out on the screen. Ordinary dialogue often appears three times longer than scripted dialogue on the screen. Reality TV only looks 'real' because so much dialogue is edited out (one day edited to 20 second soundbytes). Movie "small talk" is very abbreviated compared to real life. We are extraordinarily redundant.

What I see is a guy leaning against a wall sobbing on a cell phone. Break up the dialogue by putting in some actions that he does--"his fist hits the wall intermittently, picking up intensity as his tone becomes agitated", "he picks up a rock, weighs it in his hand, then hurls it", etc. Show the reader/audience that he's becoming more agitated to the point of "making a mistake". The dialogue, by itself, is insufficient to convey that scene, yet that's all we're given. To me, it simply reads emo.

What kind of mistake? He's going to get drunk? Pick up a hooker and get an STD? Nothing suggests he's going to get violent. Maybe have him scream and pound the wall when she hangs up. Show us something. Otherwise, I think he's just going to his car to cry.

Having the fully completed script would be more beneficial to us and you for feedback. Telling us how we don't understand is right on the money, we have nothing else to go on. Generally, the first 20% of the movie is the teaser, introduces the main character(s), and introduces the general problem to be solved. For a 40 minute short, that has to happen in the first 6-10 pages approximately. You've dropped us into scenes without the benefit of that introduction. As a result, we can only hazard guesses. A lot of the comments we make are directed at common problems of new screenwriters. Since you're writing this to produce yourself, there are practical considerations that most new filmmakers don't think about especially when they want to submit for festivals.

Since you want to make the best production, it would be best to write the complete script and then solicit feedback. It saves you having to fully explain the scene. Ideally, you want the movie to do that on its own. And the best way to find out if it does, is to just to put it out there. Then you'll get the clearest feedback of where you need to work on character, plot and/or dialogue.

You know, I was thinking about doing that because it made more sense, but every other forum that I previously joined screamed at me whenever I did this, saying that I was giving them too much at a time. Anyway, I'll start doing that. Thanks for being so helpful guys.

 

[directorik]

Second, by "about to make a mistake", I mean as though he's on the verge of going nuts and killing a bunch of people. I met a guy at work who acted just like that once when he confided in me. His eyes teared up, his voice got shaky, and he kept making these weird faces like he was about to scream.

This is the embodiment of "show don't tell"

I'm a director - I cannot film, "about to make a mistake" but I can film;


His eyes tear up. He takes a short breath. His face contorts.
He almost screams but stops himself by clenching his fists
and closing his eyes.

Every time I try to do that, though, I end up with a really boring movie that's too dialogue driven and/or confusing. It basically turns into a research paper.

And THAT is the challenge of a writer.

Writing is very difficult - much more difficult than most people think. After
all we've been writing since first grade and get better as we go. But writing
for "entertainment" is different research papers or even creative writing in
school and writing for the screen adds an entirely different set of complications.

It takes time to learn how to get what's in your hear onto paper in a way
that not only showcases what YOU want others to see but in an entertaining
way.

 

[Firm1]

This is the embodiment of "show don't tell"

I'm a director - I cannot film, "about to make a mistake" but I can film;


His eyes tear up. He takes a short breath. His face contorts.
He almost screams but stops himself by clenching his fists
and closing his eyes.



And THAT is the challenge of a writer.

Writing is very difficult - much more difficult than most people think. After
all we've been writing since first grade and get better as we go. But writing
for "entertainment" is different research papers or even creative writing in
school and writing for the screen adds an entirely different set of complications.

It takes time to learn how to get what's in your hear onto paper in a way
that not only showcases what YOU want others to see but in an entertaining
way.

Oh my god, I know. The problem is, I can't find a good flow for screenplay writing. I used to write a lot of short stories, but they were always in the past tense and read like a traditional novel. Even with those I wasn't awesome at it, but my flow was far more natural. With screenplay writing I have a tendency to describe scenes without any flow. And often times, I don't describe enough. But damn it, I love doing it. I've never loved anything more than getting my stories down on paper, even if I'm shitty at it. I'm probably going to cry once the movie is finally done.