That darn Lucas!

Zensteve

Zensteve

I had to make a new thread about this, rather than derail Logan's "College Life" thread where this sidetrack started.

With the new Star Wars Trilogy finally out on DVD there are a lot of angry people looking for Mr Lucas' head on a platter, it would seem. Of specific note is the issue of "Solo fires first", in Han's encounter with Greedo the bounty hunter.

As you may recall, when Star Wars was first released, Han wasn't taking any chances with Greedo... and slyly zapped him. Makes sense, really. Han, being on the dodgy side of the law, takes a cue from Darwin and decides he wants to survive. fair enough.

In the "Special Edition" which was released in the late 90's, that had been re-edited, Mr Lucas did not want Han coming across as a bad-boy cold-blooded killer... so Greedo gets to shoot at Han first, so Han has no choice but to react and return fire.

Yes, a minor detail in the greater scheme of things... but it altered the memories and perceptions of fans who, for 20 years, were suddenly being told that what had happened didn't really happen the way they remembered it.

Now come the DVD Editions... and cor' blimey! What was Lucas thinking??!!

_______

Here, to refresh your memory, is how the edit came out. Clearly you can see how Han is left with no choice but to return fire after the blatant warning shots by fired by Greedo.

Greedo fires first... yes, we can see that. (3mb, DivX CoDec)

Now, as if that's not bad enough... it turns out that sprinkled throughout the entire Star Wars universe, Han is never allowed to shoot first.

Remember that encounter Han has with Vader, in "The Empire Strikes Back"? Right when Lando sells them out to the Empire? Han sees Vader, pulls his blaster and immediately gets a few shots off before having his blaster captured? That's how it happened... right?

Well, think again! New edit of that scene (3mb, DivX CoDec)

Or how about in the original Star Wars... Luke and Han are about to break Leia out of the cell she is in. They are in control of the jailblock, and Han is having that conversation via an intercom with security. Trying to tell them about a radiation leak to stop them coming in. He then blows up the intercom with his blaster rifle... right?

Well, think again! New edit of that scene (5mb, DivX CoDec)

_______

Han Solo has been neutered. Never able to shoot first, never able to retain his bad-boy image that we all grew up loving.

For shame, Mr Lucas! For shame!

_______

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i always remembered greedo shooting first...pissed me off because greedo is my favorite Bounty Hunter...

also, now i CANNOT CONFRIM THIS, until i scrounge up the 40 bucks its gonna cost me to buy the new trilogy, which i preordered and have no money for, but I"VE HEARD, keyword HEARD.

That the last scene, when he sees his father yoda and (mace? damn it's been a while) His father is altered to look like the The guy (christen something Hayden?) who plays anakin in the prequels.

I dont know how true it is until i watch it though.



About directors raping the originals. I dont like it, but as a director..i always want to go back to my originals and fix them, but i dont, because im lazy. But still, LEAVE THEM ALONE GEORGE. He needs to spend all that money on the prequels, on something better, make a new legacy/series. Shit, i'll give him some ideas i have that i cant make because im broke...He needs to leave them as is, and move on.
 
Lucas: God or Goob?

I was actually going to start a thread on the esteemed Mr. Lucas. I have watched the director's cut of THX 1138 with all the extra features save the director's commentary. On the Star Wars DVD I am rearing up to watch Jedi but have watched the Empire of Dreams Documentary.

Far be it for me to think these documentaries are biased or anything but I was I made to have the feeling that I should have been bowing everytime George Lucas appeared on screen. I thought these features on both DVDs seemed self serving. Another way for someone, I won't say who, to remind us how great George Lucas is.

Star Wars is a sensational story and I admire the tenacity George Lucas showed in getting it made. But after that the man was on easy street. He had ALL rights to merchandising. That alone would finance many third world countries. So after Star Wars I have little sympathy for the plight of George Lucas and his movies made out of mainstream hollywood. I do respect the business side of George Lucas who understood the old way of making movies was gone and new ways of making movies opened up new avenues of revenue.

Now George Lucas says in THX 1138 that he makes movies for himself. Ok, if that is the case then make a movie and then keep it in your closet because once you show it you no longer own in completly. Everyone who has seen it now owns an emotional stake in it. Based on that, to take films and add things in when technolgy allows it is ridiculous. No one watched Star Wars and said, "this sucks, he needs a jawa falling of a big dinosaur looking thing." I watched these movies as a kid. I want the original theatrical release on DVD, not the re-tread versions. Same with THX. Give me what brought you to the dance. I had never scene THX 1138 and may never see the original unless it comes on TV. I have Lucas' trumped up pretty version. One bonus on the disc which is outstanding is his USC THX 1138 student film.

George Lucas has pioneered much technolgy in the movie field but I wonder if the impact is as big as it is made to be in the Empire of Dreams documentary.

I am a fan of the original Star Wars movies. I believe Epidode III will be what the other weren't, what people expected. It is difficult to watch the orginal movies and posses such an emotional stake in the characters and watch the new films and only get a rise when Darth Maul is killed.

I am off my soap box and want to know what other people's feelings are regarding George Lucas. I have been surrounded by his films recently with featurettes and documentaries telling me what a visionary he is.

Should I bow before his image next time he is before me?
 
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Those are hilarious, Zen!

rizien said:
i always remembered greedo shooting first...pissed me off because greedo is my favorite Bounty Hunter...
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I'm not sure what you mean by this, but in the ORIGINAL Star Wars, Greedo does not fire first. Han just shoots him.

The beef everyone has is that NOW Greedo fires first...maybe you just said it backwards on accident, but I thought I'd point that out.
 
scooter said:
Now George Lucas says in THX 1138 that he makes movies for himself. Ok, if that is the case then make a movie and then keep it in your closet because once you show it you no longer own in completly. Everyone who has seen it now owns an emotional stake in it.
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I agree with everything you said but this. It IS George's art and I believe he should be able to do WHATEVER he wants with it. If he wants to put Jar Jar Binks in A new Hope...he has that right.

I'm not saying I like or appreciate all he's done with his movies, but I don't claim that the movies belong to me because I WATCHED them. I want the original versions on DVD as much as the next guy, and I think it will happen too...but that's pretty much up to George. I'll say I don't like what he's doing, but he created the universe in the first place, so it's his!!!
 
maybe you just said it backwards on accident
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Now there's an interesting supposition, Mr Logan.

The problem posed is this...

In 1977, Han shot first. Tens of millions of people saw it... repeatedly.

A generation passes... 20 years later, the revised film is re-released in the cinema.

Some more tens of millions of (younger) people see it for the first time... and there has been a sudden disconnect.

Sure, it's fiction... but the characters are no longer the same. How can people that cover a diverse spectrum of age and experience be able to relate to each other, when their common viewing experience (or frame of reference) has been altered?

Spielberg's latest pressing of "E.T." has similar (but less character-impacting) alterations. The coppers no longer chase after the kids, with guns drawn. The guns have been digitally replaced with walkie-talkies. At least Spielberg had the sense to have the original version included in the same box, for those that wanted to remember it the way they did when they were seeing it for the first time when it first came out.

_______

Fessin' up now that the edits above are not actually from the DVDs... the stills from ROTJ are, though.

It's from a series that illustrates the absurdity of changing Han's character model

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Damn it!!! I can't watch the funniness.

I was reading you post, Zen, getting all pissy. I was like Those scenes weren't reedited! What's this yahoo talking about? Then I listened to the audio and got the joke.

I agree with what Logan said. These films are Lucas's films, and he has the right to do whatever he wants. Hell, he could make Luke a Gungan, and I'd still say it's his right to do so.

And getting upset over the Greedo fires first thing is "for the nerds". What would Triumph say about that? He'd say that argument was good ... for him to poop on!

I recieved the Box Set as a gift from Mrs. Poke, and I loved every second of it ... even Hayden's ugly mug at the end. You know why? BECAUSE NO MATTER HOW MUCH HE CHANGES, IT'S STILL STAR FREAKIN' WARS!!!

Poke

PS Anyone notice that they cleaned up the black lines in the Rancor shots in RotJ? Hooray, those big thick lines always bothered me.
 
Guys, there is only one re-cut of Star Wars worth watching and that's Geordie Star Wars, the version where someone in my city re-dubbed all the voices with strong Newcastle (Think Billy Elliot) accents. I think you can find it floating around the net, it's massively funny. :abduct:
 
Zensteve said:
Greedo fires first... yes, we can see that. (3mb, DivX CoDec)

Now, as if that's not bad enough... it turns out that sprinkled throughout the entire Star Wars universe, Han is never allowed to shoot first.

Remember that encounter Han has with Vader, in "The Empire Strikes Back"? Right when Lando sells them out to the Empire? Han sees Vader, pulls his blaster and immediately gets a few shots off before having his blaster captured? That's how it happened... right?

Well, think again! New edit of that scene (3mb, DivX CoDec)

Or how about in the original Star Wars... Luke and Han are about to break Leia out of the cell she is in. They are in control of the jailblock, and Han is having that conversation via an intercom with security. Trying to tell them about a radiation leak to stop them coming in. He then blows up the intercom with his blaster rifle... right?

Well, think again! New edit of that scene (5mb, DivX CoDec)
Click to expand...

Oh please tell me you did this on your own and these are not on the DVDs. I've only seen the Special Editions once because they weren't Special enough to watch again.

I was a huge Star Wars fan back in the day, but ever since the Special Editions came out, I've been less and less impressed. What really bothers me is how Lucas is going about his changes. He is basically rewriting film history to make it seem like the original 1977, 80, and 83 versions were never made the way they were. I even read in a interview he had with CNN where he said those versions don't even exsist to him, only the Special Editions.

You know, if he wants to complete his Saga the way he wants, then fine, do it, but at least put the fuckin' originals on the DVDs so future generations can see how far technology and special effects have come. The orginial versions are the films millions of people lined up and waited hours to see, not the SE versions. He his erasing that film from the history books and replacing it with one that represents everything that is wrong with big budget Hollywood(and by this I mean the mentality of updating old ideas and films). Again, I wouldn't find this a problem if he wasn't replacing the originals. Just give us the option! That's all we ask for. Just do it two sides, one side is original, one side is SE.

As much as it pains me, I will never buy the Episode 4 to 6 Trilogy as long as it's the SE version. I'm hoping someone on the internet will Rip the DVDs and replace the SE versions with the original versions, Ripped from Laserdiscs. I'll just keep my fingers crossed that some geek will do that.
 
Oh please tell me you did this on your own and these are not on the DVDs
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I 'fessed up a few posts up, Mr Goat.

I did not make them myself, but they are not authentic.

They come from a complete series of re-edits that cover all three movies. I have about 8 total clips, from the whole lot. I have lost the information on who did create them.

They help to illustrate the absurdity of the actual SE editions, though.

:cool:
 
Poke said:
And getting upset over the Greedo fires first thing is "for the nerds". What would Triumph say about that? He'd say that argument was good ... for him to poop on!
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I think it's kind of important that Greedo doesn't fire first.

Han killing Greedo before Greedo can even shoot is better because:

1. It makes Han seem more like a badass.

2. It shows Han's humanity and maybe his capacity for evil.

3. It's gay for Greedo to shoot at Han Solo point blank and miss. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?!

I think Han shooting first (and last) is important for his character...so BOOYA!!

P.S. I don't think of myself as a nerd, but whenever someone starts talking Star Wars and I actually know everything they're talking about...I realize what a pathetic dork I am. Oh well.
 
If it makes you feel better, you're probably the last to know... ;)

Seriously, though, you're % right. Not to mention that Lucas shows Han getting ready to shoot Greedo. And while Lucas can call it a "warning shot" all he likes... what kind of an idiot fires a warning shot at a guy with a gun? And why would Greedo say "I'm going to enjoy this" only to fire a "warning"?

Goat... the Asian movie pirate market is pretty big... I'm betting (and hoping) that someone over there rips the Laser Discs and makes them available. And then laughs at Lucas as he makes millions.
 
I have to admit, I was pissed when I saw all the changes in the late '90s versions, but these new reported changes take the cake.

I don't mind cleaning up the matte shots in the special effects, even though I'd rather have the original films as they were originally crafted -- what good is a time capsule if you keep opening it every five years to freshen it up? -- but when you start replacing actual characters and such, that's ludicrous.

Anyone here a comic book fan? I was, growing up in the '80s. I had all the old issues of Spider-Man, Justice League, X-Men, etc. Then, somewhere down the line, Marvel and DC decided to rewrite their entire universes because they realized they had too many inconsistencies and anomalies in their storylines. Now all the old history I grew up with has been rewritten and replaced. It's pathetic.

While I can understand the need to reinvent the comic characters, if you want to look at them as being mythological characters that transcend generations, I don't understand the need to disavow what came before as invalid. The way Lucas has abandoned the visions that made him a millionaire and allowed him to connect with the fans of the first films, and then continually tinker with them as though we're supposed to be amazed and thrilled each time he tells us the same story with a few new details, is absurd.

"Son, remember that bedtime story I told you forty years ago? The one where the dwarves save the princess from the wicked witch?"

"Uh, yeah dad... ?"

"Forget I said that. There were wolves chasing her too."
 
Sorry if this is a bit O/T but as a kid in 1977, I really loved Star Wars.. it took special effects to a whole new level and was I believe one of the first films to give us Surround Sound (I think it was the first film)


And I enjoyed the second and third as well.

Where I grew up (Alameda) You could see the Oakland Shipping Yard across the esturary. There are these Giant Cranes that lift cargo off of ships. It is there that I understand Lucas got his idea of those Giant Walker machines.

I dont know what they were called.. I gues "Walkers" .. see, Im just not religous about star wars to remember names.

When the first prequel came out, I enjoyed it a little bit but it really got old fast. Lucas is a great man and has done alot for the Movie Industry but I just am not into Star wars for some reason.


Its kind of funny how Lucas used Jim Hanson to make Yoda into a giant muppet. One thing about the orriginal Star Wars is how it kind of had a Wizard of Oz feel to it. the others just didnt have the same feel to them.
 
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