Talks with a distributor.

Hi,

A smallish distributor wants to hold an exhibit for our film, all expenses paid, in front of cinema screen representatives (to see how many screens he can get our film in), however he gave us the impression that he doesn't want to sign a deal until the outcome of this screen-er.

My producer seems fine with this because it will be beneficial for the film but I am of the notion that we should get a commitment in writing before we move ahead with this screening.

Is this common practice for micro-budget films to wait?

Many thanks

DS
 
After doing some reading I think a 3 channel mix (dialogue from centre) is the minimum requirement for DCP. I'll ask more questions and get back here.

I've already told you that 3.0 is the minimum for DCP and the threads I linked to in my last post explain why.

He was pretty good and the final DoP was Oscar nominated (the second one when the first one pulled out). Budget was about 12 grand from recollection.

Whether you like it or not, stereo is not and has never been a film format. To the point that a film with a stereo soundtrack is not considered to be a film by many. For example, the Academy will not accept an Oscar nomination for a "film" with a stereo soundtrack. As an analogy, let's say you design a two wheeled car. There's no problem with that until you try to sell your design to a car manufacturer or to exhibit it at a car show. You can call your two wheeled car whatever you like but as far as the industry is concerned what you have is not a car but a motorbike!

For some reason, extreme low budget indie film makers particularly those here on indietalk seem fixated with, to the point of not even questioning, the use of stereo sound. I'm not really sure why this is, maybe its the influence of no budget youtube videos or that stereo used to be the standard for TV broadcast or maybe it's that the vast majority of consumer and professional audio equipment is aimed at the music market, where stereo has been the de facto standard for more than 40 years. Also, maybe too many are predominantly interested in the visual aspects of film making to consider the audio format question. Whatever the reason, this fixation with stereo for films is completely misplaced, which is not much of a problem when dealing with YouTube or other internet distribution channels or when dealing with the smaller film festivals but it's going to bite you in the ar$e when you start trying to get into the commercial world of film making or even when entering the more major film festivals.

I didn't expect my contribution to this thread to head it in this direction! I've been in the industry for 20 years and work almost exclusively with film/content creators making commercial products. Even though my work was for TV broadcast at the time, the demands of my clients forced me into surround sound in 1998, as the higher budget TV drama world adopted the audio format which had been the standard in the film world since the late 1970's. I find it more than a little weird to be discussing an issue which hasn't been a hot topic for over a decade in the TV world and has never been a hot topic in the film world. BTW, the equivalent hot topic in the film world was in the 1960's and 70's but the hot topic was about how to jump from mono to a multi-channel format (which included a centre speaker). So, I just wanted to know how film makers with little or no budget dealt with the problem of creating a multi-channel mix for distribution, rather than getting embroiled in arguing why stereo is not an acceptable audio format for theatrical exhibition. The solution is simple if you don't believe me, go to IMDb, look in the technical specs section and see if you can find a theatrically released film which has a stereo soundtrack.

G
 
If you find a hijacked thread now discussing audio issues, it's a 90% chance that APE is involved. ;)

I'm really surprised that theatrical audio equipment hasn't improved to the point where it can extrapolate a reasonable 3.1 mix from a stereo mix. Maybe my home 5.1 computer speakers are special. Who knows? ;)
 
I'm really surprised that theatrical audio equipment hasn't improved to the point where it can extrapolate a reasonable 3.1 mix from a stereo mix. Maybe my home 5.1 computer speakers are special. Who knows?

You've got it backwards! Theatrical sound systems represents the highest quality sound reproduction systems a member of the public is ever likely to experience and are at the cutting edge of audio technology. It's like a Formula 1 race car, the more evolved, specialised and high performance they become the more you have to provide for them and the more the fine detail becomes important. You might as well ask when a Formula 1 car will be practical to use on an ordinary public road!

Your home computer speakers are special. They or rather your amp, is specially designed to provide a cheap, poor man's approximation of what a real multi-channel system and sound mix provides. Theatrical sound is that pinnacle of audio achievement, it is what your home 5.1 system aspires to. Instead of celebrating the technical achievement of theatrical sound and drooling over the artistic possibilities it provides, many here seem to only be interested in how to make a Formula 1 car be as easy to drive and perform like a Ford Fiesta and moaning about the fact that it isn't a Ford Fiesta!

G
 
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I've already told you that 3.0 is the minimum for DCP and the threads I linked to in my last post explain why.

Yes thanks. This is what got me reading. Forgot to mention. Yes the Distributor was saying that stereo was okay for exhibitors screening but eventually all dialogue will have to be centered for DCP. Just wondering, if dialogue is centered, then is music L/R speaker only or does that play via the center speaker too?
 
Just wondering, if dialogue is centered, then is music L/R speaker only or does that play via the center speaker too?

There's no absolute rules with theatrical multi-channel sound, although there can be with TV multi-channel sound as some networks specify exactly where certain elements must be. In theatrical sound not all the dialogue will necessarily be centred, it will be positioned where the characters are, with a strong bias towards the centre channel. An obvious example could be someone shouting something from a different room (to where the visual image is located). In most films this means that at least 90% or more of the dialogue will be from the centre channel only. Much the same is true of the vast majority of the Foley. Hard sound FX will be placed where they appear on screen (including in the centre channel if necessary), so more panning is usually required with hard FX. Background FX and ambiances will generally be panned L/R (and in the surrounds in 5.1). Music will usually be panned L/R, although sometimes a little divergence is used depending on how the music was produced. Composers used to music production rather than film music production tend to pan musical elements too widely and make various other errors due to lack of knowledge/experience and therefore often need adjustment during re-recording.

All of this info is a guide rather than a set of rules!

G
 
After further talks the distro wants to 'contribute' 50% to the 'service deal' for 25%. He came up with a budget sheet that looks like it is a bit overpriced. Totally confused now.
 
What are you confused about? What deal you should be taking? If he's changing the deal? If so, will s/he change it again in the future? What your film is really worth? and so on?

I can imagine that it is really overwhelming. My biggest piece of advice is to consider the long term. What is the decision that is most likely to get you to your long term goals. You may find yourself sacrificing a little short term to make your long term goals come to life.

The problem with how I understand what you mean by contribute 50% for 25% means that you have to come up with the other 50%. A). Is this really within your means? B). Was this all just a long con to swindle you out of your money?

Time to do some deep thinking.

If you need someone to bounce your thoughts off, it may be a good idea to post a little more information.

My producer seems fine with this because it will be beneficial for the film but I am of the notion that we should get a commitment in writing before we move ahead with this screening.

Moving back to your original post. Something to consider is if your initial screening causes it to become a run-away hit, you'd be kicking yourself for insisting on a signed agreement. If it becomes a run-away hit, your position of power in negotiating becomes much stronger. It may even get someone else interested and cause a bidding war to occur.
 
What are you confused about?
The problem with how I understand what you mean by contribute 50% for 25% means that you have to come up with the other 50%. A). Is this really within your means? B). Was this all just a long con to swindle you out of your money?

The original service deal was for a flat fee but now he wants 25% for a contribution to a budget that seems overpriced. How do we know if he's paying 50% at all? My concern is that we pay for everything and end up giving a quarter of our film away.
 
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