Syncing Audio
- Thread starter bloxorz98
- Start date
I wonder if it's a camera or codec issue then. I've never experienced that kind of delay recording audio on camera.
It's something with Canon DSLRs. I've never experienced it with any other camera, DSLR or otherwise, and I've seen many comments from other Canon DSLR users that they have experienced the same offset, generally 1-2 frames.
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Lots of great advice already...
From me...
Techniques for Synchronizing Audio—can Pluraleyes sync 132 clips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=594kyBfrSx0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=594kyBfrSx0
How to Sync Video Tracks with Audio Using Premiere Pro CC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuOSBS9qF8I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuOSBS9qF8I
From me...
Techniques for Synchronizing Audio—can Pluraleyes sync 132 clips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=594kyBfrSx0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=594kyBfrSx0
How to Sync Video Tracks with Audio Using Premiere Pro CC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuOSBS9qF8I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuOSBS9qF8I
Proper procedures are NEVER a waste of time. Do you feel that professionals with six, seven, eight and even nine digit budgets are wasting their time by slating shots and keeping logs? If you someday wish be a professional yourself you must know correct procedures, and use them as naturally as you breath. These procedural processes save you time/money in the long run, as well as keeping you organized.
Does it make any difference with/without magic lantern? I'd be curious if it's a codec issue or actual hardware latency. If it happens all the time, it's probably a hardware issue -- what a bummer.
What Alcove said.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm always on the lookout for better procedures, working out a way to tweak to get better performance, faster turnarounds etc. For this to happen, you really need to try the proper methods.
Here is the problem with changing the way audio is synced. I suspect any procedure you'd come up with could help reduce the time required to sync, though you'd lose all that benefit and more in the time it'd take to train everyone to follow that new procedure. It's a technical procedure that's stood the test of time for a long, long time. If there was a better way, I'm sure it'd have been changed by now.
Of course I know and understand these procedures. In a perfect world, I'd have no problem doing them every time, but I usually have to chase sunlight or try to keep my friends and family from getting bored, etc. I hear what you are saying, though, and I agree.
Okay, thanks, I will use the slate now.
This is very interesting, as I have the T2i, and never noticed. When I use the slate in front of the camera, what should I be aware of, since the audio is a couple of frames off? Should I sync the sound two frames before or after you hear the clap of the slate? Or should I sync it two frames after? Or what...?
Thanks.
This is very interesting, as I have the T2i, and never noticed. When I use the slate in front of the camera, what should I be aware of, since the audio is a couple of frames off? Should I sync the sound two frames before or after you hear the clap of the slate? Or should I sync it two frames after? Or what...?
Thanks.
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This is an internal problem that only affects the camera's internally-recorded sound.
If you use the frame of video where the sticks come together, and the snap in the audio waveform from the recorder audio, you don't have to worry about anything. The camera reference sound doesn't come into play.
If your camera has the same issue, you'll see and hear it when scrubbing through camera footage with source audio.
Well I have used it for three years now, and haven't noticed anything, and always edited video with the onboard mic sound first, before putting the external audio over top.
You sync your second-system sound AFTER you edit?! That must be a real pain in the ass. Why in the world... ?! You lose your slate and sync point doing it that way, so why even bother with a slate or even a clap?
In a high-budget pro workflow everything is time-code-based and the sound designer can bring in the source files after the edit, but with non-sync material there is no reason not to sync before the edit.
Of course, what do you have to show from those three years?
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Yes and if you learn sign language you'll never have to write out a slate card!
Boom ,lets go, take 1a
There we go.
Really?
This? -->http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/hdv/z7u_s270u_m35u/HVR-Z7U/s270_ft.html
Me thinks you meant to say that at most filmmakers do a poor job of getting great audio for the videocamera to record, OR you have a DSLR.
Which bring us to this point --> If newbies would stay away from DSLRs while they develop their craft, we wouldn't need threads like this one.
Within the first few posts this thread seemed to enter the world of the surreal!
Let me get this straight. You don't want to use arguably the cheapest, simplest, most effective time-saving device ever invented for the film industry because it takes you too much time?! That's like saying you prefer to drive rather than fly from NY to LA because you waste too much time waiting in the airport departure lounge!
Exactly, you look at the first few seconds of the footage and the slate tells you what scene and take it is, then you listen to the first few seconds of the audio file and the verbal slate tells you what scene and take it is. Within just a few seconds you can be absolutely certain you're matching the correct audio file with the correct footage. Ah, but wait, you don't use a slate, so what method do you use to be certain and does your method take less time than the few seconds it takes to use a slate? And, I haven't even mentioned (what others have already mentioned), the ease and surety of lining up the visual and aural slate or, the various audio problems which can arise and how the slate can help identify or avoid some of them.
What happens if your best take visually is Take 2, but Take 2 has audio problems and Take 5 was the best audio take? What do you do in post, listen through all the audio takes to work this out? Let's say; 2-6 takes of 1-4 minutes each, that's what, roughly 10 minutes on average to listen through all the audio takes in post? Whereas the director shouting "Cut! Circle that one.", the PSM and someone in the camera department picking up a pen, the sound and picture logs and circling a "Take" takes a total of what, 5-6 seconds? Looking this info up in post takes another say 10-15 seconds, so that's about 20 odd seconds in total against 5-10 mins (or more), which way wastes more time? Maybe if you're making a 1 minute short you can remember all the best and worst picture and sound takes but what about a 10 minute short or a 90 min feature?
The reason that professional workflows exist and that there is a "right" way to do things is not to cause more work and cost more time/money but precisely because it is more efficient; less prone to error and saves time/money!! A slate, along with picture and sound logs are not "a waste of time" just to conform to some apparently pointless professional way of doing things, they exist to make the whole process easier AND save time!
Yes, and a teaspoon is all round easier than a NLE, the only downside is that a teaspoon won't help you much when you need to edit your footage!
Your question was how to sync audio in post, what does a preamp have to do with sync'ing audio in post?
G
Let me get this straight. You don't want to use arguably the cheapest, simplest, most effective time-saving device ever invented for the film industry because it takes you too much time?! That's like saying you prefer to drive rather than fly from NY to LA because you waste too much time waiting in the airport departure lounge!
Exactly, you look at the first few seconds of the footage and the slate tells you what scene and take it is, then you listen to the first few seconds of the audio file and the verbal slate tells you what scene and take it is. Within just a few seconds you can be absolutely certain you're matching the correct audio file with the correct footage. Ah, but wait, you don't use a slate, so what method do you use to be certain and does your method take less time than the few seconds it takes to use a slate? And, I haven't even mentioned (what others have already mentioned), the ease and surety of lining up the visual and aural slate or, the various audio problems which can arise and how the slate can help identify or avoid some of them.
What happens if your best take visually is Take 2, but Take 2 has audio problems and Take 5 was the best audio take? What do you do in post, listen through all the audio takes to work this out? Let's say; 2-6 takes of 1-4 minutes each, that's what, roughly 10 minutes on average to listen through all the audio takes in post? Whereas the director shouting "Cut! Circle that one.", the PSM and someone in the camera department picking up a pen, the sound and picture logs and circling a "Take" takes a total of what, 5-6 seconds? Looking this info up in post takes another say 10-15 seconds, so that's about 20 odd seconds in total against 5-10 mins (or more), which way wastes more time? Maybe if you're making a 1 minute short you can remember all the best and worst picture and sound takes but what about a 10 minute short or a 90 min feature?
The reason that professional workflows exist and that there is a "right" way to do things is not to cause more work and cost more time/money but precisely because it is more efficient; less prone to error and saves time/money!! A slate, along with picture and sound logs are not "a waste of time" just to conform to some apparently pointless professional way of doing things, they exist to make the whole process easier AND save time!
Yes, and a teaspoon is all round easier than a NLE, the only downside is that a teaspoon won't help you much when you need to edit your footage!
Your question was how to sync audio in post, what does a preamp have to do with sync'ing audio in post?G
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Something that I haven't heard mentioned anywhere else, so I'll throw this in as another good reason for using a slate...
I use FCPX for editing. That has built-in syncing. It will match an external sound recording with the audio track from the video. It does this by matching waveforms, so - in theory - there's no need for a slate.
BUT... having the clap sound of the slate provide a very distinctive point, making it easier for the software to match. I've never had a problem in FCPX getting audio and video to sync up when I've used a slate (except see below). A couple of times when I've accidentally selected part of a clip without the slate portion and tried to match that, FCPX has got it wrong.
I use an iPad app as a slate (Movie*Slate), and rather than a single clap sound, it precedes that with three bips. That makes an even more distinctive match point.
The only other time I've had problems autosyncing in FCPX is when I've accidentally selected mismatched takes (eg, video from take 2 and audio from take 3). I very quickly discover the source of the problem and fix it. Why? Because both audio and video are slated and it's easy to see/hear the shot & take for each clip.
Slating takes you 10 seconds extra per take on set, and saves you hours and hours in post-prod. If you believe you don't have time to slate on set, you don't know what you're doing and have more serious problems than you think.
I use FCPX for editing. That has built-in syncing. It will match an external sound recording with the audio track from the video. It does this by matching waveforms, so - in theory - there's no need for a slate.
BUT... having the clap sound of the slate provide a very distinctive point, making it easier for the software to match. I've never had a problem in FCPX getting audio and video to sync up when I've used a slate (except see below). A couple of times when I've accidentally selected part of a clip without the slate portion and tried to match that, FCPX has got it wrong.
I use an iPad app as a slate (Movie*Slate), and rather than a single clap sound, it precedes that with three bips. That makes an even more distinctive match point.
The only other time I've had problems autosyncing in FCPX is when I've accidentally selected mismatched takes (eg, video from take 2 and audio from take 3). I very quickly discover the source of the problem and fix it. Why? Because both audio and video are slated and it's easy to see/hear the shot & take for each clip.
Slating takes you 10 seconds extra per take on set, and saves you hours and hours in post-prod. If you believe you don't have time to slate on set, you don't know what you're doing and have more serious problems than you think.
I actually do the same. I sometimes won't get the location audio for weeks and want to get the rough cut completed.
Not sure how H44 does it, but when I bring my footage in, I create sequences of each one and use these sequences to cut with. This way when I do get the location audio in a few weeks, I can just replace the audio at that base sequence level which does have my slate in it.
Also, with the BMPCC footage lately, I can throw my initial LUT in the sequence and not have to add it to each individual cut.
For our small group, this has been working out pretty well. It does cause some EDL issues but luckily I haven't had t deal with that. If I had location audio available the same day, I would just merge the clips and skip the sequence creation.
Okay thanks. I've been editing my friend's feature, and helping out with that. I also practice with the program. I didn't know you can sync prior to putting it in the timeline. I will have to figure out how to do that with Premiere Pro. And I will make more of an effort to use the slate for my next shoot. I don't really have a slate right now, as I borrowed a crew members before. If I can't get one before the next shoot I will find something to use. If I had a person to slate, that would help rather than me having to get in front of the camera, then go back to my previous position. When I am acting in the scene, I don't like leaving my spot, for continuity's sake. But I can get the DP to slate it or someone.
The reason why I sync the sound after the video edit, is cause I thought it would save time, to only sync the takes I end up using, rather than syncing everything beforehand. But I realize now that that does not save anytime, as I end up using some of every take here and there pretty much.
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If you are on the CC version you select both clips, choose merge, then sync by audio. You will get a new merged clip.
Or if you have them both in a sequence..select both clips and choose sync..then by audio.
If you are not on the latest CC version of Premiere..then for the merge method, you can sync by marker..so you put a marker on each clip where the clapper is at. Or by the sequence method, just line up the wave forms. This is the way I used to do it. Then I turn off the camera audio, leaving it there for reference later.
It is very easy to do now.