Sound Recording Tips - DR-100

[trueindie]

Alcove this is for you

I'm going to be shooting something in a closed room, 15ft by 20 ft. Two people will be speaking looking at a camera.

Sound equipment I own:
- Sennheiser lav mic x1
- AT8035 Shotgun mic x1
- Tascam- DR100 x1
- Zoom H1 x1

None of the people can be lav'ed.

I was thinking the following:
- I am going to have all the microphones hanging from the ceiling.
- lav and shotgun will go into one of each inputs into the DR-100
- Zoom H1 will also hang from the top as backup

What should the Tascam - DR100 settings be?
Right now the input settings is on
- Stereo
- Low Cut = Off
- Level Ctrl = Auto (What is this??)

Record Settings is on
- Format = Wav 24bit
- Sample = 48k
- Size = 2g
- Pre rec = on
- Delay = Off (What is this??)

In the back
- Mic Gain is on High
- Phantom power is on
- Auto / Limiter is off (heard somewhere it should be off. Don't know what it is)
- Speaker off.

Am I doing things right? Any advice on what settings to change?
Thanks so much. Who needs to go to film school when you have indietalk
Best,
Aveek

 

[gpforet]

Alcove, I'm sure you'll chime in but here's my take and some questions:

1st the question: While these people be stationary and how close will they be to each other? IS this interviewer, interviewee, or two hosts, are they standing or sitting?

Let's start with the recorder: If you don't have a mixer in front of the recorder, go to setup and set auto/limiter to limiter and switch on the limiter on the back of the unit. This may save your a** from an unexpected peak. I take it the sennheiser lav is the me-2 which is omni. If you can't put it on the talent it will do you no good unless you can seriously control the acoustics of the environment and by seriously I mean TONS of sound blankets hung just out of the camera frame.

If the talent is stationary and standing and within a foot or so of each other, then I would use only the AT8035, hung from a stand overhead, and angled at 45 degrees to the talent's mouth position. Putting a rug down both under them and behind them will help with reflections. Run the 8035 into the DR100, gain will most likely have to be set to high, and level will likely be nearly all the way up. Have someone listen with headphones and monitor the meter and make small level adjustments as needed to keep the dialog around -20 to -16 with peaks hitting around -10 or so. Set the low cut on the DR-100 to ON. Pre-record can be turned off. All the other settings you listed are fine. Remember to set the auto/limiter to limiter in the setup menu and switch it to ON on the back of the recorder. If you were using a mixer in front of the recorder, you would set the recorder limiter to OFF and use the mixer's limiters which are typically more transparent.

If the talent is moving about, you'd be better served by putting the shotgun on a boom and having someone follow them (with headphones to monitor the mic).

If the talent is sitting I would still use the 8035 on a stand overhead, but possibly hide the H1 on the desk in front of them as a back-up and possible alternate source. The problem is you have no way to make adjustments on the H1 during the shot.

All of this is based on you using what you have on hand.

If you can provide more specifics about the shoot I may be able to offer more direction.

Alcove this is for you

I'm going to be shooting something in a closed room, 15ft by 20 ft. Two people will be speaking looking at a camera.

Sound equipment I own:
- Sennheiser lav mic x1
- AT8035 Shotgun mic x1
- Tascam- DR100 x1
- Zoom H1 x1

None of the people can be lav'ed.

I was thinking the following:
- I am going to have all the microphones hanging from the ceiling.
- lav and shotgun will go into one of each inputs into the DR-100
- Zoom H1 will also hang from the top as backup

What should the Tascam - DR100 settings be?
Right now the input settings is on
- Stereo
- Low Cut = Off
- Level Ctrl = Auto (What is this??)

Record Settings is on
- Format = Wav 24bit
- Sample = 48k
- Size = 2g
- Pre rec = on
- Delay = Off (What is this??)

In the back
- Mic Gain is on High
- Phantom power is on
- Auto / Limiter is off (heard somewhere it should be off. Don't know what it is)
- Speaker off.

Am I doing things right? Any advice on what settings to change?
Thanks so much. Who needs to go to film school when you have indietalk
Best,
Aveek

 

[Alcove Audio]

What he said!​

 

[trueindie]

Thanks so much gp. Thanks alcove for chiming in also.

Just to answer the questions about the setting.

1st the question: While these people be stationary and how close will they be to each other? IS this interviewer, interviewee, or two hosts, are they standing or sitting?

Both talents will be within a couple of feet of each other and will be standing. They will be talking to each other.

Let's start with the recorder: If you don't have a mixer in front of the recorder, go to setup and set auto/limiter to limiter and switch on the limiter on the back of the unit. This may save your a** from an unexpected peak.

Ok, I set the auto/ limiter in the back to 'on', but I can't find the limiter option in the 'setup'

I take it the sennheiser lav is the me-2 which is omni. If you can't put it on the talent it will do you no good unless you can seriously control the acoustics of the environment and by seriously I mean TONS of sound blankets hung just out of the camera frame.

Sennheiser is a g3 lav. not sure what me-2 is. I was just going to put it in the other input in the tascam just for the hell of it. Why waste a perfectly good input is what I was thinking.

If the talent is stationary and standing and within a foot or so of each other, then I would use only the AT8035, hung from a stand overhead, and angled at 45 degrees to the talent's mouth position. Putting a rug down both under them and behind them will help with reflections. Run the 8035 into the DR100, gain will most likely have to be set to high, and level will likely be nearly all the way up. Have someone listen with headphones and monitor the meter and make small level adjustments as needed to keep the dialog around -20 to -16 with peaks hitting around -10 or so.

Awesome. this is what I will do.

Set the low cut on the DR-100 to ON. Pre-record can be turned off. All the other settings you listed are fine. Remember to set the auto/limiter to limiter in the setup menu and switch it to ON on the back of the recorder.

The Low cut options are: Off / 40hz / 80hz / 120hz. What should I set it to and why?
I could not find the auto limiter in the setup menu, but turned it on in the back.

All of this is based on you using what you have on hand.

If you can provide more specifics about the shoot I may be able to offer more direction.

I think you did a fantastic job of training me gp. Thanks a bunch. Drinks are on me when we meet for that award ceremony someday

Best,
Aveek

 

[rocksure]

Thanks so much gp. Thanks alcove for chiming in also.

Just to answer the questions about the setting.



The Low cut options are: Off / 40hz / 80hz / 120hz. What should I set it to and why?
I could not find the auto limiter in the setup menu, but turned it on in the back.




Best,
Aveek

The safest setting would be 80hz. If it is females or children you could use 120hz, but if it's males with low voices 120 could miss some of the frequencies in their voice. You can always low cut higher in post later, but you can't put back frequencies if you take them out and miss them later. You won't want anything below 80hz as it will just be rumbles, thumps etc that eat up head room.

 

[trueindie]

The safest setting would be 80hz. If it is females or children you could use 120hz, but if it's males with low voices 120 could miss some of the frequencies in their voice. You can always low cut higher in post later, but you can't put back frequencies if you take them out and miss them later. You won't want anything below 80hz as it will just be rumbles, thumps etc that eat up head room.

Thanks Rocksure.

Another general question. For a closed room setting, is this a better microphone than the at8035 I have?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/300615-REG/Audio_Technica_AT897_AT897_Short_Condenser.html

thanks
aveek

 

[Alcove Audio]

A different shotgun would not make any difference; you need a cardioid - preferably a hypercardioid - like the AT4053b from Audio Technica.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...4053b_Hypercardioid_Condenser_Microphone.html

Probably way out of your price range. Perhaps you can rent something for the day. Trew Audio rents the Sennheiser MKH 50 or the Schoeps CMC6 for $30/day; they ship anywhere in Canada and the continental US.

What you need to do, no matter what mic you use, is expend every effort to control the sonic environment; use sound blankets, moving pads, carpeting - anything you can think of - to minimize acoustic "bounce".

 

[Alcove Audio]

BTW...

The ME-2 is the model number of the lav that comes with the G3.

On the DR-100 you want to use the limiter only. Or you can assign the audio to both tracks and set one at a lower volume as protection against transients.

Roll off the low end at 80Hz; that is unless one of the voices has the depth of James Earl Jones, then use the 40 Hz roll-off.

See if you can figure out a general mic and stand position before hand, it will save you grief later on.

 

[Chrisk]

Just one thing I haven't seen adressed, Level Control should NOT be on Auto, ever. Switch that to manual.

 

[gpforet]

The switch on the back labeled AUTO/LIMITER changes function depending on setting in the MENU/INPUT SETTINGS/LEVEL CTRL. The two options are AUTO and LMT. By setting this menu function to LMT, the switch on the back turns the limiter on and off. If the menu option is set to AUTO, then the switch turns auto level on and off. Without another limiter in the signal chain, I recommend setting the menu function to LMT and having the switch turned on.

Just one thing I haven't seen adressed, Level Control should NOT be on Auto, ever. Switch that to manual.

 

[trueindie]

Thanks guys. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the advice. Really.

I can't get this kind of advice from the people I work with, and some of them went to film school for four years. Some of them .... never mind.

Love this Forum.
Aveek

 

[gpforet]

The reason you have difficulty finding this information is because there are relatively few who choose this as a career field. Production/Location sound is not glamourous, hardly ever in the spotlight, is tedious, and does not call attention to itself. Therefore, it is not the first choice for people who want to be involved in filmmaking. That being said, when it's all you do, and you spend 12+ hour a day doing it, and (this is important) really care about the quality of what you do, then experience is gained very quickly, and due the the diverse nature of location sound, you quickly learn to adapt techniques and tools to a variety of environments and situations. That's why we carry a library of microphones. That's why we put 4 mics in a car. That's why we lav an actor as well as booming the shot. That's why we carry a kit that often times costs two or three times what the DP is carrying. That's why we hear the airplane a minute or two before anyone else, and notice the air conditioner from the building next door, or the PA tapping out a text message, or the sound of the freeway 6 miles away. Our only job to to get the best possible dialog on set.

FWIW, I started with a DR-100, a used Sennheiser ME-80/K3, a used Gitzo boom, and headphones. that basic kit slowly funded the kit I carry today (too much stuff to list here). And while I have many more tools in my tool kit, the techniques have not changed.

By the way, that DR-100 I started with will be working hard this weekend, wearing Rycote wind protection, and sitting on a tripod 6 feet from the side of a dirt track where 18 super late model dirt track race cars, each putting out 850 hp, will go ripping around turn 1, accelerating to 120 mph, while I grab track to driver communications, announcer, and crowd and pit sounds on my DR-680. Can you tell I'm stoked?

Thanks guys. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the advice. Really.

I can't get this kind of advice from the people I work with, and some of them went to film school for four years. Some of them .... never mind.

Love this Forum.
Aveek

 

[trueindie]

By the way, that DR-100 I started with will be working hard this weekend, wearing Rycote wind protection, and sitting on a tripod 6 feet from the side of a dirt track where 18 super late model dirt track race cars, each putting out 850 hp, will go ripping around turn 1, accelerating to 120 mph, while I grab track to driver communications, announcer, and crowd and pit sounds on my DR-680. Can you tell I'm stoked?

I can tell... cause I feel stoked for you myself

 

[Alcove Audio]

I can't get this kind of advice from the people I work with, and some of them went to film school for four years. Some of them .... never mind.

They don't teach sound-for-picture in film school. It seems like film schools these days are of the opinion that "if you can't see it, it doesn't exist." The Tisch Film School (NYU) has one - repeat, one - sound course listed on their web site. I couldn't find even one sound-for-picture course on the Columbia web site. They do teach a general overview at the diploma mills like Full Sail, and there is supposedly a post production track, but I could not find any specifics; they seem to make the entire music track a prerequisite.

 

[brianluce]

Don't be afraid to dial those limiters way up. DR100 is for music, not really for dialog, so it needs a little help.

 

[trueindie]

Don't be afraid to dial those limiters way up. DR100 is for music, not really for dialog, so it's need a little help.

aha. Now my past experience with it makes sense.

A funny thing, all the experts here I work with would ask me:

"What are you recording on?"
"DR100"
"Oh that's very good. Philip Bloom recommends that"
"Oh"
"Yeah,... yeah... you see that red light? It means it's peaking"

Nobody once checked the setting. I never checked the setting. We're all filmmakers. Hilarious

Thanks Brian.
Aveek

 

[gpforet]

There is no setting for the DR-100 limiters, it's either on or off. In dialog recording we learn to avoid hitting the limiters if at all possible. The limiters are there to save you, that's all. Hitting the limiters is a bad thing, not a good thing, but a necessary evil to save the take.

Appropriate levels for dialog is -20 to -16 with peaks around -12 to -9. Hitting the limiters will deminish the dynamics of the sound, although it's not as bad as what happens when you hit beyond digital zero.

 

[trueindie]

There is no setting for the DR-100 limiters, it's either on or off. In dialog recording we learn to avoid hitting the limiters if at all possible. The limiters are there to save you, that's all. Hitting the limiters is a bad thing, not a good thing, but a necessary evil to save the take.

Appropriate levels for dialog is -20 to -16 with peaks around -12 to -9. Hitting the limiters will deminish the dynamics of the sound, although it's not as bad as what happens when you hit beyond digital zero.

Good to know. -20 to -16 and -12 to -9 it is. Thanks for reinforcing that in my head

 

[CamVader]

While you're hot on the trail here, I had a bad experience with my DR-100 and non-approved SDHC cards.

Imagine this: Everything appears to record fine with no error codes, but all I ended up with were new files with 0KB recorded. It was strange. Since then, I've stuck with the recommended SanDisk's and everything has been fine.

We had to re-shoot the whole damn afternoon. Some forum members may remember the incident.

 

[Chrisk]

I've put all sorts through my Tascam but never had problems.
Had your card been anywhere near a mac perchance? Only ask because something similar happened to files on my 550d. 4 files showed up as 0k (of course they were the 4 most important files, the rest were just background stuff. Had a good look at the file structure and erased the folders macs like to put on to cards. Files were fine after that.