• Wondering which camera, gear, computer, or software to buy? Ask in our Gear Guide.

Sound help

Hey everyone,

I'm currently in the middle of creating a little hobby project (web Series - Yurik and Danya) and I'm doing the filming, acting and VFX. I'm quite ok in these areas it's the sound effects / back track music and stuff that I find myself lacking in skill.

Is there anyone that is quite good in this and could help me or show me a site where I can learn how to create / use good sound effects and make them sound natural to the clip they are going to be used on..

I am willing to learn and self teach myself like I did with using my cameras, using the editing programs, the VFX, etc.
Although, if someone would like to join and help out with the web series that would be create too.. Only really looking for a sound effects guy at the moment but any help at this point would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
 
Hi, I'm a SFX Recordist and Sound Designer by trade and I think I can help you out with whatever questions you have.

There are millions of ways of creating sound effects for any project and it's similar to the amount of different camera angles and focal lengths you can have - i.e. infinite.

What type of software do you have at your disposal for editing your audio?

What type of project is it? In other words, what type of sound effects will you need to have?
 
Hey dude, thanks again for your help.. You helped me a couple of weeks ago with something else I was asking about. :)

Umm, basically I can't seem to figure out (Due to lack of knowledge) how to make the sound effects weather it be foot steps (Pre-recorded or not) gun shots, object drops, etc sound natural to the clip it goes with..

Can you understand that or am I just explaining it incorrectly?

It's a comedy so nothing too full on, just the only thing that is bringing what I have so far down is the sound.
 
What you're asking for is to tell you in one post the knowledge that ROC and I have acquired over the years, and learn and relearn every day.

It's a combination of things that make the "artificial" soundscape of a film a cohesive whole.

You have to choose/create a sound that in and of itself sounds "natural" to what you are seeing.

The sound has to be performed in a "natural" way (and have perfect sync).

All of the sounds - dialog, Foley, sound FX, ambience - have to sound "natural" together.



You now have to learn to really listen to your sound; you are not listening to the dialog anymore, but everything else that's around the dialog. Turn the picture off and just listen. There may be traffic or birds or AC or people talking or all four or... All of the people you would see if the picture was on are creating LOTS of sound; they're breathing, doing something with their feet, their hands, their head. They're wearing clothes that they "interact" with like leather or satin.

All of those sounds are interacting with the environment - a bathroom, a canyon, an office, a forest, a gymnasium, a kitchen, a car, etc. Each of these spaces/places has it's own unique characteristics in the way that sounds bounce around. This is known as reverb.

If you want to replace some footsteps or add a gunshot you have to put the sound in the same space/place as the dialog. This means that you need to add to your new sounds a reverb that has characteristics very similar to the reverb you hear on the dialog.

It also means putting the sounds into a dynamic (volume) and tonal (equalization or EQ) context. The first is obvious - don't make it too loud (or too soft...). EQ is modifying the audio frequencies of the sound adding & subtracting low, mid and high frequencies.

It takes a while to develop the ear for this. It's also easier if you have a good listening environment and some decent speakers; it's easier to pick out subtleties, so getting things to match is easier.


Probably the easiest thing you can do is to take the same mic you used in production, go back to the location or someplace similar, and rerecord the footsteps there. If thats not possible find a similar surface and shoes and do a close up audio recording of the footsteps, then do cloth movements. You can add reverb later. You will probably have to reduce the bass somewhat, and maybe the treble.

A long-term tip - listen to lots of films on your audio editing set-up. This gives you a reference perspective for when you work on your own projects; you need to be familiar with the sonic characteristics of your edit/mix space.


Here's the "DUH!" moment of the day - do you have a room tone (ambience) where you added Fsteps and GShot?
 
Last edited:
Hi Intergage.

It really is a very specific skill and unless it's something you're really keen to learn maybe you could try and find a young sound designer who's looking for projects to get experience?

If it's something you really want to learn I imagine it would be a lot of fun learning the craft and you'll learn a lot from Roc and Alcove. If I were you I'd search through some of their old posts. You're sure to find some gold.
 
What you're asking for is to tell you in one post the knowledge that ROC and I have acquired over the years, and learn and relearn every day.

I appreciate that you and ROC have spent a majority, if not all of your career perfecting your trade in sound development but what I am asking for it somewhere to start learning basically.. I don't really need to be professional at it just enough to so I can, if needed do a complete short almost by myself (Minus the obvious multi man tasks).

At the moment I am quite good at filming; Lights, angles, camera work, etc.
Also VFX I'm still learning but getting better each time I try it.

What I really need to learn is sound 'FX'. As the only two characters in this web series don't speak and tell the story / feelings through body language and actions.

Things like foot steps through weeds, or the wind at the top of the tree's..

I spent a good 5 - 6 hours last weekend standing in the middle of a field recording ambient sounds so I could later edit them to fit what I need them for. I also pre-record footsteps and cloths. (Not even sure if I need to record the cloths moving as people walk) but for a simple scene of someone walking through a bush I have 4 - 5 sound elements and it all sounds too cluttered / un natural.
When I use just say 2 elements it sounds dull... I can't seem to win.
 
Hi Intergage.

It really is a very specific skill and unless it's something you're really keen to learn maybe you could try and find a young sound designer who's looking for projects to get experience?

If it's something you really want to learn I imagine it would be a lot of fun learning the craft and you'll learn a lot from Roc and Alcove. If I were you I'd search through some of their old posts. You're sure to find some gold.


Thanks for your feed back mate. Yeah, I can understand it takes many years of skill training and experience.
I just need to learn the very basics and having trouble starting basically...

I guess I should have worded my OP better.
 
Let's see if I can simplify some of my previous post...

If your talent is not speaking you need to record other sounds. What sounds do you "see" in the shot? Which one is the most important? That is the sound you should be attempting to record better than anything else. For example, if you're character is walking through the weeds, you boom the actors feet. If you have to create the sound(s) after the fact you need the footsteps (sneaker on dirt) and the sound of the weeds.

I also pre-record footsteps and cloths.

This means that you have to cut the sound to match the picture. Did you account for every possible movement? Even if you did (I always manage to forget something) does the sound actually sync well? And if it does sync okay does feeling of the sound match the scene/situation?

This is why doing Foley work while watching picture (the purists definition - Foley can only be performed in sync to picture) is so important; you mimic every movement rather than editing in prerecorded sound FX as best you can. Foley becomes very character specific once you start really digging in to it. It's one of my work habits to do each character continuously through the whole film; that way I start getting a real feel for the character and my performances reflect the character more fully.

As to the mix; this is one of the toughest parts to learn. A part of mixing is creating sub-mixes (stems). Create a sub-mix for each audio category, and sub mixes within each category - dialog (one sub for production sound, one for ADR), Foley (one sub-mix for each character if you have enough aux busses), one for sound FX (the sub-mix breakout is different for each genre), one for ambience/BG, and a sub-mix for score & source music.

When mixing multiple elements getting a proper balance is a tough gig. One thing to keep in mind is a "rule of thumb" for mixing sound for picture - the audience can only "hear" or concentrate on two and a half things. Now, obviously, there will be a lot more than two or three things happening at any given moment. What you have to do is prioritize. In your scene you have a character walking through a field of tall grass. You need the ambience/BG of tweeting birds and wind on the trees & grass. You need the character walking through the tall grass (the footsteps, the cloth and ?). When you see just the feet make the footsteps louder. When the entire actor is seen pull the FSteps back. When you see the character from across the field the FSteps almost disappear completely. Now, go back to my first post on this thread regarding reverb - yes, even outdoors. Put everything in the same sonic place/space.

One thing to keep in mind is that although you have multiple sonic elements only 2 1/2 take prominence at any time. Another thing to keep in mind is that multiple elements can make up one sound (FSteps and cloth) (birds, breeze, brook). Something like cloth is very subtle. When it's not there you miss it. If it's too loud it's annoying. Every mixer works differently, but one method that I use is to mix just the Foley elements - mute everything else. Get the cloth in perspective with the footsteps; when the ambience/BG is un-muted the cloth will probably "disappear" but if you now mute the cloth you will miss it even if you don't consciously hear it.

Mixing is a mostly an exercise in being very subtle. Go back and reread my original post and then read this one again, then take another shot at the mix.
 
Heaps of very in-depth detail there man. Thank you, heaps!
I have re-read what you said a couple of times and I get the basics of it. Lots of playing around with one particular sound before you accept it as being good enough for the final cut.

I'm going to attempt it again tonight when I get home and I might even record a few more things as less noise at night in a whole.

Another question if a couple of you don't mind answering.
What good audio editing software is there to get?

I'm only using Adobe Premiere at the moment.
 
Any software dedicated to audio editing - called a DAW for Digital Audio Workstation - will facilitate your work flow. The biggest "challenge" is finding a DAW that works well with video.

Pro Tools is the obvious answer; it's the "standard" and has well integrated sound-for-picture functions. Other DAWs include Logic and Digital Performer (they play nice with video). Nuendo and Cubase are okay as well; although I don't know about the video integration. I've never worked with Adobe Audition but heard it's okay as well. Audacity is free, but has limitations.

There's no magic bullet; it's just applying your accumulated knowledge and getting better as you go.
 
Any software dedicated to audio editing - called a DAW for Digital Audio Workstation - will facilitate your work flow. The biggest "challenge" is finding a DAW that works well with video.

Pro Tools is the obvious answer; it's the "standard" and has well integrated sound-for-picture functions. Other DAWs include Logic and Digital Performer (they play nice with video). Nuendo and Cubase are okay as well; although I don't know about the video integration. I've never worked with Adobe Audition but heard it's okay as well. Audacity is free, but has limitations.

There's no magic bullet; it's just applying your accumulated knowledge and getting better as you go.

Thanks mate, I might give them a look tonight see if I like any of them :)
So, basically I have to just start from playing around and learning from scratch?
Thank you to everyone that help me here - All a very big help..

Once again this is only just a hobby I have and isn't a full time career choice haha.
 
Pro Tools is the obvious answer; it's the "standard" and has well integrated sound-for-picture functions. Other DAWs include Logic and Digital Performer (they play nice with video). Nuendo and Cubase are okay as well; although I don't know about the video integration. I've never worked with Adobe Audition but heard it's okay as well. Audacity is free, but has limitations.

Cubase isn't really great with video at all. It can DO it, but not well compared to others. As a PC user, I switched to Sonar 70% for better video integration. I'd also second Reaper...it doesn't do anything quite as well as others, but you can't beat the price for someone starting out! Also, depending on the audio interface for your computer (if you don't have one, go buy one now. Your standard computer 1/8" "Mic in" jacks will NOT cut it), it might come bundled with "lite" versions of software, so you can try a couple packages, and see what works best for your workflow.
 
Yea! Another person using Sonar for post audio.

Cubase isn't really great with video at all. It can DO it, but not well compared to others. As a PC user, I switched to Sonar 70% for better video integration. I'd also second Reaper...it doesn't do anything quite as well as others, but you can't beat the price for someone starting out! Also, depending on the audio interface for your computer (if you don't have one, go buy one now. Your standard computer 1/8" "Mic in" jacks will NOT cut it), it might come bundled with "lite" versions of software, so you can try a couple packages, and see what works best for your workflow.
 
I took a look at a couple last night... I might be here for awhile learning haha! :P
Did some tuts on a few programs to see if I can compose my own sound effects but had a bit of trouble understanding most stuff...

I downloaded an Ebook last night as well to do with audio editing and sound manipulation so hopefully that will give me a better incite. :)
 

I think that you mean "insight".

You have two tasks ahead of you - understanding audio basics in the first place, and then applying that knowledge to audio post.


Here are my "big five" books for those who are interested in getting into audio post/sound design:

Sound Design - David Sonnenschein (Primarily an artistic viewpoint rather than a "How To")

Practical Art of Motion Picture Sound - David Lewis Yewdall (More of a technical viewpoint)

Dialog Editing - John Purcell

The Foley Grail - Vanessa Ament

The Sound Effects Bible - Ric Viers
 
I think that you mean "insight".

You have two tasks ahead of you - understanding audio basics in the first place, and then applying that knowledge to audio post.


Here are my "big five" books for those who are interested in getting into audio post/sound design:

Sound Design - David Sonnenschein (Primarily an artistic viewpoint rather than a "How To")

Practical Art of Motion Picture Sound - David Lewis Yewdall (More of a technical viewpoint)

Dialog Editing - John Purcell

The Foley Grail - Vanessa Ament

The Sound Effects Bible - Ric Viers

Oops sorry, posted that on my iphone..

I might download a few of them and give them a read when I get a chance. I'm more of a hands on learner though.. I just need to know the very basic's so I can understand the hands on stuff haha.

You have been a great help man, thank you very much!
 
Back
Top