Sony NX5 vs Black Magic Cinema Camera

[BackGardenProductions]

Hi there i made a thread a few days back on which camera i should get and in the end the 2 cameras that stood out for me were the NX5 and the Cinema Camera so all i am asking is what camera should i get? All we shoot is short action movies so we need something that we can move about with fairly easily but we also need something that has very good hd quality so that is why i picked these 2 cameras. So overall is it worth spending 1k more on the NX5? But the main thing is video quality.
Many Thanks
BackGardenProductions

 

[Andrew McCarrick]

Blackmagic all the way. 13 stops of dynamic range, 2.5k Raw. By far the better camera. The NX5 is a AVCHD camera. Huge difference when it comes down to it. You get more for less with the Blackmagic.

 

[SérgioMiguelSilva]

Just like Andrew says!

 

[Phil_UK]

So you say that the AVCHD codec is crap? Have you seen what the Sony FS100 can do? Yes its 24mbits, but it holds up so well. Can we stop with it all?

The Blackmagic is much better on the sheet, when it comes to the codec, of course and thats because BlackMagic specializes on the post workflow mainly.

13stops is nice dynamic range, RAW is great too! But it will have immense Rolling Shutter issues, no decent wide, because it's 2xCrop Factor, awkward inbuilt battery, expensive SSD's as media. Do you want to spend money on external batteries like Anton Bauer's?

Really, it depends on what you shoot. Black Magic might not be the best for action type stuff. Where will you show your videos? Do you need 2.5K? Will you show them on the big screen? Show them on the internet?

The Blackmagic is awkward when it comes to choosing lenses. A wide lens, say a 18mm EF lens will translate to being 36mm on the Blackmagic Camera. A 8mm lens will be a 16mm, so you got a wide but it will have crazy distortion!

Are you fine without these focal lengths? It will be a pain to kit it out. Action films have loads of movement. Are you prepared to fight the rolling shutter of this camera on the micro four thirds sensor?


Have you considered other cameras like the Sony FS100? It's about the same price as the Sony NX5 and has a Super35 sensor. It has reduced rolling shutter, especially when compared to a 5D and the BMD!

 

[Andrew McCarrick]

The crop factor isn't 2x, when compared to super 35mm. It's 1.6x. The 2x figure is the crop from Full Frame or the 5D. Compared to the 7D or FS100 it's ~ 1.6x. So a 10mm on the BM camera will look like a 16mm on the FS100.


When it comes to codec; AVCHD is certainly decent enough for web and maybe TV. But in my opinion if you're doing anything that you want to be high quality, or anything your going to grade heavily; AVCHD falls apart really quickly.

 

[that1guyy]

Use a Tokina 11 -16 on the black magic. Even with the crop factor, that's very wide. I don't know why anyone would want to go wider than that.

Crop factor excuses are getting old.

 

[SérgioMiguelSilva]

Between Black Magic or Nx5 I would go for the first, but FS100 is a great camera although I believe that is a bit more expensive, 6000$ I think.

 

[Kholi]

But it will have immense Rolling Shutter issues

Where did you get your info? Because Adam Wilt said that it's no worse than any DSLR out right now.

no decent wide, because it's 2xCrop Factor

AN a11-16/2.8 will be wide and fast enough for most applications.

awkward inbuilt battery

Awkward because you're not familiar with it?

expensive SSD's as media

Expensive by who's wallet?

Do you want to spend money on external batteries like Anton Bauer's?

Who says you have to buy AB's? I know for a fact that you don't.

The Blackmagic is awkward when it comes to choosing lenses. A wide lens, say a 18mm EF lens will translate to being 36mm on the Blackmagic Camera. A 8mm lens will be a 16mm, so you got a wide but it will have crazy distortion!

Sounds like to me that you just aren't familiar with how smaller sensors work. An 8mm won't be a 16mm unless you're comparing it to 5D.

Are you fine without these focal lengths? It will be a pain to kit it out. Action films have loads of movement. Are you prepared to fight the rolling shutter of this camera on the micro four thirds sensor?

Laughable. Please watch THE RAID. All Af100... aka 4/3rds. Maybe you can find it in a theater near you where it's raking in money. All Action.

Have you considered other cameras like the Sony FS100? It's about the same price as the Sony NX5 and has a Super35 sensor. It has reduced rolling shutter, especially when compared to a 5D and the BMD!

FS100 is great, but it's not the holy grail. Let me know how you deal with blown out highlights posterizing to all hell and back, and the video-like 24P.

Way to compare rolling shutter on a camera that's not even out yet.

I encourage people to learn more about tools and be cautious of info being presented on forums as facts.

 

[Phil_UK]

Where did you get your info? Because Adam Wilt said that it's no worse than any DSLR out right now.



AN a11-16/2.8 will be wide and fast enough for most applications.



Awkward because you're not familiar with it?



Expensive by who's wallet?



Who says you have to buy AB's? I know for a fact that you don't.



Sounds like to me that you just aren't familiar with how smaller sensors work. An 8mm won't be a 16mm unless you're comparing it to 5D.



Laughable. Please watch THE RAID. All Af100... aka 4/3rds. Maybe you can find it in a theater near you where it's raking in money. All Action.



FS100 is great, but it's not the holy grail. Let me know how you deal with blown out highlights posterizing to all hell and back, and the video-like 24P.

Way to compare rolling shutter on a camera that's not even out yet.

I encourage people to learn more about tools and be cautious of info being presented on forums as facts.

Have you been at NAB, have you checked it out?

Just a slight bump to the camera and the image got all skewy. Panning was horrible on a 100mm focal length with canon glass! No straight lines at all!

A Tokina will still show distortion...

SSD's will be expensive for his wallet. Read the Original post. Seems like he is on a tight budget!

One thing i didn't know is that "The Raid" was shot on an AF100. Crazy! Seen the trailer in the cinema yesterday! Hat's off! I still think you can make better choices then Micro Four Thirds sensors for action stuff!

 

[Kholi]

Have you been at NAB, have you checked it out?

Have you? Sounds like you're just reporting sometihng from a twitter post.

Just a slight bump to the camera and the image got all skewy. Panning was horrible on a 100mm focal length with canon glass! No straight lines at all!

As it should be. Panning any CMOS sensor on a long focal length too fast will show skew. THat's COMMON knowledge. I can reproduce it on an Epic and an Alexa. What's your point?

A Tokina will still show distortion...

Are you sure? Or are you speculating? Shooting out the center portion of a lens will reduce the effects of pincushioning etc that's seen on larger sensors. It will depend on WHICH lens you use.

SSD's will be expensive for his wallet. Read the Original post. Seems like he is on a tight budget!

Fair enough.

One thing i didn't know is that "The Raid" was shot on an AF100. Crazy! Seen the trailer in the cinema yesterday! Hat's off! I still think you can make better choices then Micro Four Thirds sensors for action stuff!

I'm not saying that you can't. What I am saying is that people should inform themselves more on the tools before commenting on them. Repeating what other people said isn't a very professional way to operate. Test the tools for yourself and see what comes of it.

Of all the talk about larger sensors, name an FS100 feature film doing what THE RAID (AF100--most unimpressive DSLR upgrade camera out there) doing the same numbers. Full blown action. MAJOR motion picture release from an independent?

It's more than adequate.

 

[Phil_UK]

Yes, i have been at NAB, and it really seems like the BMD has much more rolling shutter than DSLR's! But you know what, the BMD seems like an early adaptors camera and i think they are working on much more exciting things on the camera side already!

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

Better to simply forget the whole 2.5k Raw thing at this point - for most users that'll end up being a specialized mode used only for effects shots or studio work where there might be a small advantage.

So it's 10 bit 4:2:2 ProRes HQ vs. 24mbit 4:2:0 AVCHD - and while I've been very impressed with what Sony's done with AVCHD, personally I'd take the ProRes every time.

SSD prices are constantly dropping - currently you'll get about 80 minutes of ProRes HQ on a $100 drive. Not particularly expensive - but an SD card with the equivalent capacity for the NX5 will probably run under $20, so it is a significant difference. For documentary work the sony's a no-brainer as you could shoot all day with a pocket full of cheap cards. If you don't need to do that though I'd say the difference isn't significant considering the price difference between the cameras.

Rolling shutter could be a problem, but the handheld samples I've seen so far look no worse than the 5D - and in practical use over 3+ years I've found it to be largely a non issue on that camera. It'll be present in the NX5 as well, although certainly to a lesser degree.

Wide lenses will be a challenge with the Blackmagic compared to a S35 camera. The NX5 isn't a S35 camera though. At it's widest it's a 29mm equivalent, so in this particular comparison the BMD camera would actually give you several options to go wider.

Also, the crop factor can work to your advantage here in a way that isn't necessarily intuitive - canon's 8-15mm zoom on this camera would actually become the rough equivalent of a 10-37mm zoom, which should cover just about any wide angle situation you could imagine. Scroll to the bottom of this link for an illustration of why this works:

http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/is-the-new-blackmagic-cinema-camera-the-hdslr-killer

None of this is to say the NX5 isn't a better camera for the OP - but that depends entirely on their shooting style and workflow. The NX5 will certainly be an easier camera to shoot with, and likely easier to get decent results out of - but if you're willing to put the time in in post the BMD definitely holds more potential to go beyond 'decent' results.

 

[jax_rox]

Can I suggest:

Reading through this post http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=39870

And pointing out that:

The BMDCC is a decent camera for a cinematographer who knows what they're doing, knows the workflow, is able to work with a much smaller body, raw files, etc. etc.
The two cameras are completely different.

What level are you at? If you're making cinema productions for distribution, there'd be no question to go for the BMDCC over the NX5. If you're starting out, or upgrading perhaps from a cheaper DSLR, then I would suggest using the NX5 to learn.

As I pointed out in the thread I linked, with the BMDCC, you need to grade every single thing you shoot for starters. That, plus the fact that SSDs are more expensive than SD cards, and the fact that you'll need to buy a pretty decent rig for any kind of handheld work... I'd go with the NX5. I was talking to the lecturers at my old film school and they told me they're giving the first years NX5's to work with. On the topic of the BMDCC - they said it's a nice camera but the thing is, if you can make something look good on a prosumer camera, you can make it look good on anything. A raw camera is easier to make look good than a prosumer because you just grade it to whatever in post. It's not going to teach you how to light a scene..

That and the relative cost is going to be cheaper with the NX5 anyway. The BMDCC is $2995 - but that's body only.. NX5 comes with a (decent) lens, records onto SD cards, XLR ins as opposed to 1/4".. and it's essentially a camera that will help you get a good image, and if you're really stuck you can just stick it on auto (I wouldn't suggest doing this, but it's an option). You really need to know exactly what you're doing with something like the BMDCC.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

A raw camera is easier to make look good than a prosumer because you just grade it to whatever in post. It's not going to teach you how to light a scene.

You really need to know exactly what you're doing with something like the BMDCC.

So which is it - is a raw camera easier, or do you really need to know exactly what you're doing with it?

Or is it actually that it's only easier if you know exactly what you're doing with it?

You'll need to know how to light with either camera if you want to get good results with it. I totally agree with the concept of starting students off with prosumer cameras - but I wouldn't do it because they force you to learn lighting. I'd do it because they don't force you to learn a lot of additional things you'll need to really take advantage of a camera like the BMD, and when you're just starting out it's easier to learn a few things at a time.

Based on the OP's original thread I actually wouldn't recommend either camera. It sounds like he doesn't have a lot of experience yet, so there's very little to be gained by investing several thousand dollars in a camera which will have features you don't have the skills to use yet. I'd say grab either a T3i or a similarly priced camcorder and spend 6 months or a year shooting with it - at that point you'll know what you like and don't like, and what you really need that the current camera isn't doing for you, and be better positioned to make the call on selecting a more advanced camera.

The camera's not the only thing you'll need, either. You'll be better off getting a < $1000 camera and spending the rest on sound & lighting gear than spending all the money on the camera.

 

[BackGardenProductions]

Hi, sorry for the late reply! Anyway i was looking for something protable as we do a lot of moving about and action so i need spmetning that can be handheld. But at the sametime i would need something tnat has very good picture quality. Finally as well as good picture quality i would need something that isn't too expensive as i am only a teenager but really into filmmaking and i was also wondering is all the footage shot on the black magic camera quite dull and needs to be colour graded because that might be a downside.
Thanks
BackGardenProductions

 

[jax_rox]

Or is it actually that it's only easier if you know exactly what you're doing with it?

That one

You'll need to know how to light with either camera if you want to get good results with it.

True, though you're much more likely to get up and running with an NX5 and get decent results to begin with than with the BMDCC, even without knowing how to light. That's not to say you shouldn't light it.

The camera's not the only thing you'll need, either. You'll be better off getting a < $1000 camera and spending the rest on sound & lighting gear than spending all the money on the camera.

Or, teaming up with someone who does have the knowledge and/or equipment. Film is a collaborative medium, and the earlier you start collaborating and meeting others who are doing the same thing, the better.

Hi, sorry for the late reply! Anyway i was looking for something protable as we do a lot of moving about and action so i need spmetning that can be handheld. But at the sametime i would need something tnat has very good picture quality. Finally as well as good picture quality i would need something that isn't too expensive as i am only a teenager but really into filmmaking and i was also wondering is all the footage shot on the black magic camera quite dull and needs to be colour graded because that might be a downside.

protable? The BMDCC you'll need a handheld rig for if you want half-decent handheld action. Please note that the handheld look generally has more pre-thought and skill than simply waving the camera around...
And yes, as has been stated everything shot on the BMDCC will need to be graded. The BMDCC is really not an entry level camera. It's a mid-level cinema camera with an entry level price. I'd suggest looking through the post I linked before as there are many good points brought up in that.

 

[joshythehipster]

Black magic camera
Just compared the specs

 

[BackGardenProductions]

Hi, by protable i ment portable! Secondly I know that the Cinema Camera will have better looking footage and is cheaper but i like that the NX5 (although more expensive) is easier to hold and comes with a fairly decent boommic (even though we will not use it much). Finally i do not like the sound of having to completely colour grade each from the Cinema camera and the max frame rate is 30p so not good for slow mos . So all i am asking is that even though i might go with the NX5 is the quality still good form the NX5 as i have seen test videos but i wanted you opinion. By the way if you were wondering i would be posting all my videos on youtube, so 1080p HD!
Thanks Again
BackGardenProductions

 

[BackGardenProductions]

I have now also seen the pmw100 which looks very promising so would that be a good camera to consider as i really like its specs and weight/size because it would make it easier to lug around.
Thanks Again
BackGardenProductions

 

[BackGardenProductions]

Also would this adapter work with HD footage and look as good?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sonnet-SDHC-Adapter-Camera-Slot/dp/B004FRB3OQ