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Should I hire a DP who is inexperienced at shooting action scenes?

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harmonica44

It seems that finding a DP who has shot an action sequence in my proximity is difficult. Their is one guy who I am helping out on his short film, and he said he would be eager. He owns a videocamera, tripod, jib, and steadicam.

I don't think he has a fluid head tripod though, but he can borrow mine if his video camera is not too heavy for it.

But their are certain things he does not know such as focal lengths. One thing I learned the hard way is that changing the focal lengths could lead to continuity flaws, especially in action sequences. One moment someone is close to the wall, the next shot, they are further away, cause the shot was at a different focal length. Or how a longer focal length makes punches and kicks look more real, since it makes people look closer together. Things like that. He also does not have a lot of experience with the steadicam it seems, but he is learning.

I just wonder if this lack of experience, makes hiring such a guy, a good idea. I would also like to do some fast power zoom shots, like you see in movies like The Wild Bunch, but no DP I have checked out, owns a camera that can do that.

This DP is also saying how because of my budget certain shots, can not be attained. Like how I want some jib like shots, when most realistic interior locations are not big enough to hold jibs, etc. I feel like I got enough to worry about and wish I could just leave it to the DP to get the shot, without telling me I need to figure out a way to circumvent the microbudget all the time, since most DPs seem to have been educated to work on higher budgets only, and don't know much on how to circumvent themselves.

What do you think though, is it possible to make a microbudget action short film and have it turn out good, with a camera operator who has never shot one before, and with having to circumvent equipment? I am however though, not going to hire anyone, unless they do an action sequence test for me first. I'll even help out.
 
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Well when it comes to action scenes one chase sequence is being shot during the day, so we should be able to shoot with the aperture at the camera's sharp sweet spot, which may be around f8, depending on his camera.

There is another chase at night though, and that's where it gets tricky. I can get lights and don't mind paying for them, but still won't have enough to get it to f4 even. Maybe f2, but it depends on what lights are best and affordable.

Aside from action scenes though, I do want some steadycam shots, for master shots, other scenes. Like in a master shot of five actors, let's say, they will all be different distances apart. I was told that at f8, their is only six inches of focus, so even on a master shot of a dialogue scene, a wireless focus may be required, if you plan for the master to be steadycam shot.
 
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You realise F2 lets in more light right? And it wouldn't matter if you were shooting with a steadicam or locked down you would still need some lights.

So this is why you plan around your problem. Do they have to be distanced apart? Does it actually have to switch focus to each of them? Why does it need to be on a steadicam for that shot? I really recommend a slider (and/or an actual dolly) if you're just looking for the slow moving slight perspective changing shots. That way you can easily control the focus
 
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harmonica44 said:
Aside from action scenes though, I do want some steadycam shots, for master shots, other scenes. Like in a master shot of five actors, let's say, they will all be different distances apart. I was told that at f8, their is only six inches of focus, so even on a master shot of a dialogue scene, a wireless focus may be required, if you plan for the master to be steadycam shot.
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An 18mm at f/8 on an APS-C sensor has a hyperfocal distance of just over 7' - you can keep everything from 3'9" to infinity in focus.

Learn to use a depth of field calculator; just saying "there is only six inches of [depth of field]" at f/8 is meaningless.
 
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On the topic of your crash zooms: get a zoom servo. Plenty of zooms coming out with attachable sevos, and plenty of servos that work on any lens. You could hook up an FF gear to your zoom ring and use your follow focus to zoom. If you have two FFs, you could have one for zooming and keep one on focus. I've put an FF on the iris ring of a lens to facilitate an iris pull in the past.

On the topic of steadicams and wireless FFs: people buy cheap 'steadicams' that aren't that great, and work kind of 'okay'. Anyone with a proper steadicam rig will also own and rent a full FIZ package - often a Preston, though more common here is the Bartech. Jag35 currently have a wireless follow focus priced relatively cheaply.
It really depends on your shot and the action as to whether you'll need it or not. Stick on a wider lens and stop down to f/5.6 or f/8.0 and you might be okay, depending on what's going on. I prefer to have some sort of focus control on steadicam and handheld shots as all sorts of things change, and you don't often find scenes that are lit to f/8.0 (though you do find wider lenses on steadicam shots).
Low budget filmmaking is a series of compromises. If you want to shoot at f/2.0 on a steadicam and keep things focussed, you need a focus device. If you can't afford one, you come up with something else.
 
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stef said:
You might also blame the grips for not having enough lights, so the steadycam is out. Because if there was more light, he'd have a better DOF.

The DP will keep the same distance from the talent, and have a large enough DOF to handle them moving around a bit. If I were doing it, I'd fly a slightly wide angle with the hyperfocal distance set to give me focus from 1 feet to around 15 feet, and tape down the focus ring, and get right near the action. I wouldn't even have a follow focus attached.

My opinion is: It's not your headache. If you're going to hire a DP, hire a DP and let him do his job.
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I would like to but he keeps saying we can't do this shot, can't do this shot, etc. I have to hold his hand through all of it as we try to circumvent constant problems, that he is not sure how to solve. If he can't figure out how to get the shots on a microbudget, I fear we are going to screw up.

WalterB said:
Play around and test a short action scene with the DP.
You will both learn from it.
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I will ask him to do that with me. Their is one we want to do but it will take forever to edit if it's just the two of us, and put the effects in, like fake cgi squibs and all. So we have to learn after effects and all...
 
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harmonica44 said:
I will ask him to do that with me. Their is one we want to do but it will take forever to edit if it's just the two of us, and put the effects in, like fake cgi squibs and all. So we have to learn after effects and all...
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Why? A camera test is not a VFX test. If you want to do a VFX test to see how the VFX come up, then yes you would have to. But, it's a camera test. You're looking to see how the camera holds up, perhaps how he holds up as an operator, and then how the footage holds up in the edit. Use your imagination - you don't need to physically create fake blood in the computer and spend days motion tracking and tweaking it to get it right just for a test.
 
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Well yeah, but I want to test that stuff out too, to see if I can shoot the footage the right way, to get the after effects to look right. But yes, camera tests, you're right. Well I wrote a foot chase that turns into a car chase. He is getting a rig that hooks onto cars, and you can turn the camera in any position you want on the rig. So if we can do that with the camera hooked onto cars, and get some good running steadycam shots, that will be a good sign. He has a flycam by the way. I am trying to persuade him to get a wireless focus, not just for me, but for any other projects he plans to get his money's worth out of his steadicam for.

As far as the autofocus suggestion, I use to practice with an autofocus camera all the time. It couldn't tell what to focus on at what time, but I another guy I talked to says his autofocus always had and has never had a problem, so maybe mine was just sucky.
 
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Realistically, a $200 flycam is barely a real steadicam anyway, and the cost of a wireless follow focus system is going to run him up somewhere between 10 and 100 times what he paid for the steadicam itself, so I'm not really sure if it would be worth it.

On a lot of DSLRs, there is no continuous auto-focus anyway, so you'd have to do a combination of stopping down, and keeping relative distance.
 
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