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Should I hire a DP who is inexperienced at shooting action scenes?

H

harmonica44

It seems that finding a DP who has shot an action sequence in my proximity is difficult. Their is one guy who I am helping out on his short film, and he said he would be eager. He owns a videocamera, tripod, jib, and steadicam.

I don't think he has a fluid head tripod though, but he can borrow mine if his video camera is not too heavy for it.

But their are certain things he does not know such as focal lengths. One thing I learned the hard way is that changing the focal lengths could lead to continuity flaws, especially in action sequences. One moment someone is close to the wall, the next shot, they are further away, cause the shot was at a different focal length. Or how a longer focal length makes punches and kicks look more real, since it makes people look closer together. Things like that. He also does not have a lot of experience with the steadicam it seems, but he is learning.

I just wonder if this lack of experience, makes hiring such a guy, a good idea. I would also like to do some fast power zoom shots, like you see in movies like The Wild Bunch, but no DP I have checked out, owns a camera that can do that.

This DP is also saying how because of my budget certain shots, can not be attained. Like how I want some jib like shots, when most realistic interior locations are not big enough to hold jibs, etc. I feel like I got enough to worry about and wish I could just leave it to the DP to get the shot, without telling me I need to figure out a way to circumvent the microbudget all the time, since most DPs seem to have been educated to work on higher budgets only, and don't know much on how to circumvent themselves.

What do you think though, is it possible to make a microbudget action short film and have it turn out good, with a camera operator who has never shot one before, and with having to circumvent equipment? I am however though, not going to hire anyone, unless they do an action sequence test for me first. I'll even help out.
 
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I think it's possible with the right people. Freddie Wong is a perfect example (with his previous work) of a micro budget but he is someone with much experience and dedication to action.
Depending on the level you may need to hire stunt doubles, I would imagine this is costly.

Just a few comments though: I'm not sure a fluid head would matter in an action film, of course it depends how you plan on shooting. If you shoot the chinese way then it will! (This is not racist or aynthing, this is an aknowledgement and appreciation that a higher percentage of action in chinese films is real and therefore does not need spastically shaky cameras.

How do you know he doesn't know much about focal length? Maybe give him some pointers on your own trial and error, but respectfully of course.

Any camera with a completely manual zoom (ie an SLR. thats probably not the tech term but meh) can do a fast zoom, though I have not seen the Wild Bunch so it might be faster than I think.

Steadicam also is less important in an action IMO apart from walking shots. A lot of steadicam people that is their sole job
 
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harmonica44 said:
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This DP is also saying how because of my budget certain shots, can not be attained. Like how I want some jib like shots, when most realistic interior locations are not big enough to hold jibs, etc. I feel like I got enough to worry about and wish I could just leave it to the DP to get the shot, without telling me I need to figure out a way to circumvent the microbudget all the time, since most DPs seem to have been educated to work on higher budgets only, and don't know much on how to circumvent themselves.
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'I really want a shot where we crane down and then steadicam through an entire location'
'Cool, I'll look into rates for steadiops and cranes'
'I don't have any money'
'So, how were you expecting to do a crane/steadicam shot?'
'I'm not the DP, you work it out'

That's what this sounds like to me...

If the location isn't big enough for a jib, then it isn't big enough for a jib - simple as that. Sure, you could handhold the camera and attempt a similar move, but then that wouldn't be a jib move, it would be a handheld shot and it wouldn't look the same. They sound like they're simply telling you what's within your means - what will and won't work. It's up to you to come to a compromise shot that does work within your budget. I've had Directors ask for certain shots and/or equipment, and it always gets costed. If the Producer comes back and says 'we don't have the budget for a steadiop for two weeks' then we have to re-think the steadicam shots and come up with something else - the Director doesn't simply go 'don't tell me what I can and can't afford, just do it!' At least, not unless they want to end up in debt ;)
 
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If you think you can build a future relationship with the DP then it may be worth spending some time getting him up to the point where you're both happy.

the Director doesn't simply go 'don't tell me what I can and can't afford, just do it!
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lol, in this case the DP can just grab Harms credit card and order the crane/steadycam. He got permission right? Anyway Harm won't know until the end of the month ;)
 
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This is why I asked you months ago why you want to "star" in your own film. If you have the knowledge to get what you want from your shots, why not drop the acting part and DP it yourself? It would easier to find an actor than a DP to work for nothing.
 
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I could do that but then I would have to get the steadicam and other equipment myself, and learn it. Which I don't mind, but I thought it may help to hire someone who has all that and has some more knowledge, even if maybe they still aren't a pro. Their are still questions I would have that I hope a DP could answer on how to shoot it certain shots. Like I may no the type of shot I want but do not know which lens I should use for that shot for example.

As far as a jib being tough to fit into locations, here's an example. There's that shot in Skyfall when Bond on the roof of MI6 headquarters, looking at the view of London. The jib moves down and slowly reveals him looking. I want a shot like that for a scene in a police interrogation room, but most rooms that could pass, which I can use, are not big enough for a jib. So we would either have to move the camera down with a steadicam, or a fluid head tripod, and decide what's best. But the DP in particular is a perfectionist and does not feel comfortable compromising, since he wants the movie to be top notch. So I have to try to humble him a lot.

As far as getting the fast power zoom shot, no one seems to have a camera that can do that so I guess we would have to use the camera's zoom motor, which is slow, then speed it up in post, I guess. I wasn't expecting the DP or actor's to work for nothing, I was going to pay though. Also it's very difficult finding a DP that can run fast with a steadicam, when it comes to chase sequences.
 
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I guess we would have to use the camera's zoom motor, which is slow
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I'm sure you just murdered some kittens somewhere on the internet for saying that.

I wasn't expecting the DP or actor's to work for nothing, I was going to pay though. Also it's very difficult finding a DP that can run fast with a steadicam, when it comes to chase sequences.
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Consider (quickly) cut, cut, cut, cut. There is more than 1 way to do every sequence.

Also consider one more thing. No one single shot will ever make or break a movie.
 
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Sweetie said:
Also consider one more thing. No one single shot will ever make or break a movie.
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While I do agree with this statement 99.9% of the time, recently I made a video (the parkour one if you've seen it) and there was a specific shot that another forum multiple people said they stopped watching at. And my analytics on YouTube proves it, views go down very steeply by about 5% in that area
 
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I'd suspect at that point it was more of the straw that broke the camels back, rather than the first straw being the problem.

In general, people don't stop watching something from one single cut, edit, shot etc. If they're enjoying the story, it has to be extremely bad a shot to accomplish this... So while, yeah, you can break a show with one shot, with a common sense and competency no one shot will break a film.

In perspective, I meant the difference between a crane shot and a dolly shot isn't going to make or ruin a movie. I don't mean to say that you can combine an entire movie with crappy hand held shots with poor light and expect it to be great, because a movie is the sum of all its parts. You still need production value. My point being spending all your efforts on one individual jib or crane shot isn't worth the time and effort. That one shot isn't going to make or break the movie.

Perhaps I should have been more clear.

Mile, was that the video with the park fight scene where it goes dark when you start moving under that tree area? If so, yeah I remember it.
 
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As I said I do agree with you.

Good point about it being the final straw

And no that wasn't the shot. It was later in it where the shot was singularly the dude and no parkour or free running. I admit I was somewhat disappointed in the video
 
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Well the DP just told me he does not have a wireless follow focus for his steadicam, so the steadicam is out. I heard the same thing from another DP I met. I don't get it, why do these guys by steadicams if they are not planning on having anything for a focus puller to use? Well I might need someone else who has one then. That's why it's so hard to hire a DP, their is always issues that needs to be addressed and I can't just leave it to be his or her headache, while I concentrate on other parts of making the movie.
 
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The video equipment rental store where I live does not have one, but thanks I will see about that. We've never used one before so hopefully we can get the hang of it, close to shooting if we don't have much rental time to practice.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well the DP just told me he does not have a wireless follow focus for his steadicam, so the steadicam is out. I heard the same thing from another DP I met. I don't get it, why do these guys by steadicams if they are not planning on having anything for a focus puller to use? Well I might need someone else who has one then. That's why it's so hard to hire a DP, their is always issues that needs to be addressed and I can't just leave it to be his or her headache, while I concentrate on other parts of making the movie.
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You might also blame the grips for not having enough lights, so the steadycam is out. Because if there was more light, he'd have a better DOF.

The DP will keep the same distance from the talent, and have a large enough DOF to handle them moving around a bit. If I were doing it, I'd fly a slightly wide angle with the hyperfocal distance set to give me focus from 1 feet to around 15 feet, and tape down the focus ring, and get right near the action. I wouldn't even have a follow focus attached.

My opinion is: It's not your headache. If you're going to hire a DP, hire a DP and let him do his job.
 
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