sound Should I get a composer before or after editing?

H

harmonica44

I got one more scene to do for a short film which has been delayed cause I have to find a couple of new actors. I could wait till it's done and edited before getting a composer, but I figure perhaps I should take advantage of this free time. Should I listen to peaces by different composers and decide which one I want, then edit it myself accordingly once the short is done? Or would it probably be better to wait till it's all edited so the music can change rhythms and what not, at the right moments of the action?

A lot of people are purchasing music from sights, without the composer knowing what the movie is though. However in some very low budget movies, the music sounds off, and not composed well enough to the right moments. Is that why?
 
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The director of the animation that I'm working on now created an awsome music cue .doc. It's a perfect template for how composers like to work. I can send it, if you want to take a look.

To answer some earlier questions about when to hire a composer, I have had trouble in the past with producers editing a scene after I've finished the music. If there are perfectly timed musical events, then this kind of late editing can throw the musical cues off.

You'll find hundreds of "composers" looking for their big break by working for free. The problem is, you'll have very little creative or deadline-related leverage with them. Also, if it's their first big project, they may not be as ready for the commitment as they think they are.

I'm affordable, if you're interested.
http://www.harpstringproductions.com
 
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Okay thanks. I will put some adds up and take a look at your link as well. So it's pretty much okay, asking them to work for free? I did with my actors, but feel more awkward asking composers too. Of course I will be paying them in food, and a nice dinner once I show it to the people involved. He can also have a DVD copy. What should I look for while hiring? Since they are new, they won't have much past projects to show.
 
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There's nothing wrong with asking, for sure. A nice dinner would be a first for me. You must be planning to find someone local. I'd say look for someone who's able to speak in musical terms, and seems to be a well-rounded musician. Also someone well-organized. If they don't have any of their own music for you to listen to, then I'd be skeptical.
 
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For me, I couldn't think of turning such an important role over to someone else on the indie level with indie money. The question is do you have editing and composing skills, which I believe I do. Today we have access to any music you could need. But you have to spend hours listening for the right combination that tells your story, then blending pieces, slowing it down, speeding it up...etc. This is what a lot of the online composers are doing anyway.

People tell me they can't seperate my score from the story because it has become that integrated. So, until I can afford Speilburg's composers, I would rather do it myself rather than hire it out and, like others have had to do, end up changing it later anyway. But this is just my formula, everyone has to do what they are comfortable with.
 
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Maurice said:
For me, I couldn't think of turning such an important role over to someone else on the indie level with indie money. The question is do you have editing and composing skills, which I believe I do. Today we have access to any music you could need. But you have to spend hours listening for the right combination that tells your story, then blending pieces, slowing it down, speeding it up...etc. This is what a lot of the online composers are doing anyway.

People tell me they can't seperate my score from the story because it has become that integrated. So, until I can afford Speilburg's composers, I would rather do it myself rather than hire it out and, like others have had to do, end up changing it later anyway. But this is just my formula, everyone has to do what they are comfortable with.
Click to expand...

I don't know that a LOT of composers online are doing that (you're talking loop/prerecorded music manipulation, right?), though I'll take your word for it. I think anyone aspiring to be a composer is doing just that...writing the notes. And we're trying to learn too, just like the rest of you, to be the next generation of professional composers. Or more specifically, we've chosen the indie-education approach rather than traditional music school, which I'm sure most of you can relate to. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I'm egotistical enough not to want to use material I didn't write, even as much as drum loops. I want drums, then I'm going to play/edit/sequence them myself!

These approaches are not mutually exclusive. I recently worked on Flicker Pictures' recent documentary "Sheryl's Keyosk" - http://sherylskeyosk.info I provided him with sketches for the music he wanted, and he manipulated (mostly speeding up) the clips to fit what he had in mind. When I did the final drafts, rather than playing it at double-tempo (all the non-orchestral instruments are played live, including a little bit of the harp), I played as originally written, letting him manipulate them as he wanted. After, of course, including the revisions that he wanted. The music became a collaborative effort between me as a composer and him as an editor, which suited the quirky documentary.

Not knocking your approach, of course. As you say, everyone has (and should have) different methods.

Back to harm's question, absolutely can't hurt to ask a composer to work for free. Worst they can say is no. As far as what to look for, even an absolute beginner should have stuff to listen to, even if it wasn't composed for a film. Being able to make great music does not necessarily mean that they can make great music for film, but it's a good start. My first paying gig I was asked to demo a couple scenes, but for a non-paying gig that might be a little overkill.

Make sure you post to the classifieds here on IndieTalk; there are a lot of composers floating around looking to build their portfolio!
 
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Aye i,m just in the learning process at the moment myself.I'm a nobody wanting to be a somebody so i'm doing work for just my name in the credits.I've just finished my first score for a project and i must say i love it.Am currently doing another one.Thank the universe for the internet because i would never of been able to do this otherwise.If you;re still interested in someone working for free i have music up on www.kerrylloydwhitehouse.com if you are interested.If not i wish you the very best.


here' s a track i did for Eternal Warning
hope i'm allowed to put this link here.if not i apologise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igiuPEAI5_I
 
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I find it's best to use looped royalty free music as a mood filler, until all your scenes are locked. That is temp music to be removed later anyway.

Cut your production into scenes and chapters without music.

Assemble everything for DVDs and the Internet with another editing program or the same one with a new file name.

This way, you don't rock the boat with your timmeline if you need to make a scene longer later.

It is also easier for a composer to work with chapters as opposed to the whole production at once.

Some composers want to sign on early. Others can work on the fly. As I said in another thread, editors would contact composers who would bring portable electronic keyboards to plug into AVIDs and sound score features within 2 hours in the editing suit next to my production office.

So, it depends on the composer.

Like editing, the more time a composer spends on a project, the better it gets. So, keep that in mind.
 
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My example in the post of adding in speed effects to the beginning of my chain fight scene where I just manually adjusted the looped music would have thrown out a whole sound score because timing on the timeline is critical.

The actual score should be done when all scenes are complete and edited down where it won't throw off the timing.

The example of the teaser / trailer for Terminator 4 shows how critical timing is where music and video must be in sync.
 
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I've found it's best to get someone lined up for specific dates, especially when you're on a tight schedule. Then once you've finished the editing, get it to your composer and work from there :)
 
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I'm a young composer who is new to the game. I have done music for MTV and Reality Shows but it was stuff that I've already recorded. So I would do it just to learn more about composing. I know it's rough trying to get things done on a budget or free. I've had a little success but I'm still learning. My music may not be what you're looking for but you cant go wrong with free. Check out an instrumental album I did http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/88949 best of luck to you.
 
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happy to help if i can. if we're a good fit we'll go from there.

russellsoares.com

not a hell of a lot of samples on there yet - but, that's what happens when one is beginning in scoring. been doing music for ages, though.

best luck whatever or whoever you choose to work with - not everyone fits everyone else.
 
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Okay thanks a lot for the samples. I have also listened to some by others and not sure who to pick. Here's the thing though. A lot of people are composing music that is good, but not at all like the kind of music I want for my short. So how do I tell who is right for me? I wouldn't want to ask them to compose a whole rough symphony for my short, only to find out it's not what I'm looking for, then turn the person down, after they composed all that. Know what I mean?
 
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