About to order 60D... I read in the review that it has manual audio control; Does this mean I can just run the mic to the camera? Or is this route still yield unusable audio? Is it better to just get a digi-recorder and sync in post?
Should I buy a separate audio recorder w/ 60D?
- Thread starter yummydonkey
- Start date
About to order 60D... I read in the review that it has manual audio control; Does this mean I can just run the mic to the camera? Or is this route still yield unusable audio? Is it better to just get a digi-recorder and sync in post?
You can run a mic directly to the camera. But only if you use a worthless mic that plugs into a 1/4" mini-jack. Any good mic will require an XLR input. In order to plug in your good mic into your 60D, you will need an XLR adapter.
Or, you could purchase a cheap external recorder. Even the cheapest (Zoom H4n) will record audio far better than the camera that was designed for taking still pictures.
XLR adapter, external recorder -- same price-range. Much better to get the external recorder, then, besides the fact that you're getting better audio, your camera and mic aren't attached by that pesky cable.
Cracker's right, YD - an external audio recorder is going to be better than one which plugs into the 60D. And they're not all that expensive, either.
A Zoom H2 (which I use, and it gives you a lot of freedom for recording) with a protective case, windshield and tripod won't be more than £150-200 new. The Zoom H4 Cracker mentioned is around £150 more expensive usually, but obviously, it's of a greater quality than the H2.
Try www.dv247.com for microphones and stuff...they can have some very cheap B-stock on there sometimes! An H2 went on there for £80 not too long ago - worth a look.
A Zoom H2 (which I use, and it gives you a lot of freedom for recording) with a protective case, windshield and tripod won't be more than £150-200 new. The Zoom H4 Cracker mentioned is around £150 more expensive usually, but obviously, it's of a greater quality than the H2.
Try www.dv247.com for microphones and stuff...they can have some very cheap B-stock on there sometimes! An H2 went on there for £80 not too long ago - worth a look.
As a general rule separate audio is ALWAYS better. Even if the audio quality of the camera is great, you are still now tethered to the mic which makes life harder for both the camera operator and the sound recordist. Budget rules, and you do what you have to, but always preferable.
Here we go again...
The audio implementation of almost all DSLR cameras is next to nonexistent. Most do not even allow the disabling of the AGC. As the trend towards DSLR grows so is the need for a separate audio recording system.
The Zoom H4n, etc. are all marketed to musicians and were not made to do production sound. They are popular because they are cheap. However, there are serious drawbacks to the ultra-low budget recorders.
They lack proper gain staging controls such as pre-amp attenuation
The pre-amps are pretty crappy.
The units are biased towards high db sound levels; production sound requires more sensitivity.
There are no physical knobs so mixing on-the-fly is next to impossible.
Lightly built; not made for the "abuse" of working on a the set.
They tend to eat batteries at a great rate.
I know that money is very, very tight. You just need to be aware of the problems and limitations of the ultra-low budget gear aimed at musicians when used for film/video. For instance, the H4n will need it's batteries replaced at least every 90 minutes if it is supplying phantom power. The current indie favorite NTG-2 and mk-012 yield very low audio levels with the H4n.
The Tascam DR-100 has recently come out and seems to be aimed a little more at film/video; time will tell if it can do the job.
The audio implementation of almost all DSLR cameras is next to nonexistent. Most do not even allow the disabling of the AGC. As the trend towards DSLR grows so is the need for a separate audio recording system.
The Zoom H4n, etc. are all marketed to musicians and were not made to do production sound. They are popular because they are cheap. However, there are serious drawbacks to the ultra-low budget recorders.
They lack proper gain staging controls such as pre-amp attenuation
The pre-amps are pretty crappy.
The units are biased towards high db sound levels; production sound requires more sensitivity.
There are no physical knobs so mixing on-the-fly is next to impossible.
Lightly built; not made for the "abuse" of working on a the set.
They tend to eat batteries at a great rate.
I know that money is very, very tight. You just need to be aware of the problems and limitations of the ultra-low budget gear aimed at musicians when used for film/video. For instance, the H4n will need it's batteries replaced at least every 90 minutes if it is supplying phantom power. The current indie favorite NTG-2 and mk-012 yield very low audio levels with the H4n.
The Tascam DR-100 has recently come out and seems to be aimed a little more at film/video; time will tell if it can do the job.
Fantastic! Thanks guys~ So looks like I'm going to have get either Tascam dr 100 or h4N. I mean I'll probably end up using this equipment for a long time, so why not go for a solution that lasts right? But I dont think I will be able go more than a grand for it.
90min batt limit sounds crazy! I'm planning some outdoor shoots in the future, and the thought of lugging all those extra batts... oh man...
I guess the reason I was kinda excited about plugging the audio straight into the cam was: I wouldnt have to fiddle around w/ sync issue. I guess now, clapper is pretty much an essential gear, right? Do you guys have any good tips for logging/syncing issues?
90min batt limit sounds crazy! I'm planning some outdoor shoots in the future, and the thought of lugging all those extra batts... oh man...
I guess the reason I was kinda excited about plugging the audio straight into the cam was: I wouldnt have to fiddle around w/ sync issue. I guess now, clapper is pretty much an essential gear, right? Do you guys have any good tips for logging/syncing issues?
Alcove is the Pro around here (at least the very active one on the boards). He will have the best info. My Sound man uses the Korg MR-1000 which is in that range ($1000 or so). You can get a very solid solution for that amount of money.
People make too much of syncing sound. Maybe I have great editors, but it's just never an issue. A "real" slate (dry erase) is $45 from filmtools. In a pinch you can even clap your hands in front of the camera. In a perfect full crew world, you'd have someone logging the shots, and someone logging the sound.
"Scene 11A, take 4: Ambulance outside, bad audio" for example.
The audio track will have the shot call on it ("Scene 14, take 2, mark it, CLACK!" so that's how you match them up. The only real issue is drift which could be caused by the settings being wrong, and sometimes still happens on a really long shot, but a good editor can fix it right up.
People make too much of syncing sound. Maybe I have great editors, but it's just never an issue. A "real" slate (dry erase) is $45 from filmtools. In a pinch you can even clap your hands in front of the camera. In a perfect full crew world, you'd have someone logging the shots, and someone logging the sound.
"Scene 11A, take 4: Ambulance outside, bad audio" for example.
The audio track will have the shot call on it ("Scene 14, take 2, mark it, CLACK!" so that's how you match them up. The only real issue is drift which could be caused by the settings being wrong, and sometimes still happens on a really long shot, but a good editor can fix it right up.
If you have an iPad or iPhone there's a really good app called DSLR slate, makes it very very easy to sync audio, cheap aswell I paid about £2 ($3.50 around) it's designed for dslr. DP Philip Bloom recommends it too.
That's part of the problem with ultra-low budget gear. In order to make it inexpensive the manufacturers cut a lot of corners in the area of energy economy (as well as using cheap pre-amps, etc.). And just to clarify, the 90 minute limitation is when the H4n is supplying the phantom power. A new 1.5 volt battery is about 1.6 when you put it in. Below 1.35 the mic will work but at that volt level harshness and distortion starts to occur. In the H4n it degrades to 1.35 in about 90 minutes, and the H4n will give power preference to the H4n over supplying phantom power.
As far as sync goes it's been covered fairly well already. Everyone makes such a big deal abut having to sync sound to picture. Have we all become that lazy? Jeeeeeeez! It's been done since the mid 1920's when the first talkies were made. It wasn't until the late 90's that digital slates became popular, and you still have to do manual sync, the digital slate just made it easier.
There's a BIG ass audio peak right where the slate arm contacts the slate... sure sounds like rocket science to me.
I recorded slates, but with the visual peaks on the waves, I haven't used one slate in post. Syncing audio is actually not difficult at all.
Oh we sure have! better believe it
I guess I just hate clappers. I can just imagine passerbys, craning their necks and going "wooooh, you guys making a moooovie? you even got that clanking thing-ama-jig!" I know I know... irrational....
ha
Completely agree. I can see why sync sound would be inappropriate for lots of ENG and documentary work, but when it comes to drama you should be spending so much time in the edit suite anyway that a few seconds syncing up each take just isn't an issue.
(Plus, the incentive for making notes on set is even greater… nothing makes me happier when I start an edit as a proper set of notes.)