Hey guys, thinking about selling my Zoom H4n. Since I have barley used it I figure I can get a good price for it. I might sell my Rode NTG2 as well. I start shooting in April. I thought I did a good job researching these two products but After a while I am finding that they just don't seem to cut it. can any one recommend a good Recorder and a good shotgun mic?
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Selling Zoom H4N
- Thread starter mrpink89
- Start date
Once again, do you have a budget?
For me a DECENT audio recorder starts at around $500+. I might lean towards the HD-P2, but would like a good mixer like the SD MixPre-D or 302. Then again, I really should record four (4) discrete channels, so I'd get the Roland/Edirol R-4, I really like having that kind of flexibility. For mics the NTG-3 and the AT4053b, but that's not etched in stone.
But unless I found myself in the field a couple of times a week it's not a good investment for me; I currently rent (or borrow) what I need when I need it.
For me a DECENT audio recorder starts at around $500+. I might lean towards the HD-P2, but would like a good mixer like the SD MixPre-D or 302. Then again, I really should record four (4) discrete channels, so I'd get the Roland/Edirol R-4, I really like having that kind of flexibility. For mics the NTG-3 and the AT4053b, but that's not etched in stone.
But unless I found myself in the field a couple of times a week it's not a good investment for me; I currently rent (or borrow) what I need when I need it.
Hey man. My budget doesn't reach the equipment you have listed. However the AT4053b on B&H was listen at $500 and also $195. Only difference I saw was the color what one were you talking about? Would this be good for capturing dialogue? If sell my H4N and NTG2 I could at least get a good $500 since they are in good condition ( new, bought them last month) After learning just now about how crappy the pre amps are in the H4N I am nervous about shooting with this type of gear.
I have been looking in to the either just selling my H4N and buying the "Tascam DR-100 mk II" and keeping the NTG2 or just selling both my H4N and NTG2 and getting a new shotgun as well.
I don't have the funds for a mixer the audio that is going to be recorded separately will have to be straight from the recording device. but I don't know which one to buy. Fuck! man, Audio is tricky as hell.
I have been looking in to the either just selling my H4N and buying the "Tascam DR-100 mk II" and keeping the NTG2 or just selling both my H4N and NTG2 and getting a new shotgun as well.
I don't have the funds for a mixer the audio that is going to be recorded separately will have to be straight from the recording device. but I don't know which one to buy. Fuck! man, Audio is tricky as hell.
Switching from a Zoom to a Tascam ain't gonna help your sound problems.
You are either unfamiliar with good technique, or unfamiliar with the device controls. Or both.
You ought to be able to get perfectly passable sound (for your budget) on a Zoom H4 & NTG2... unless you're at a beach. Heh.
Maybe you'd be better off returning/selling the gear, and just hiring an affordable sound-guy/gal with equipment? They'll know how to use it well, and you won't have to panic about sound on top of everything else that's going to go wrong on your shoot.
what do you mean on top of everything else thats going to go wrong at my shoot? what are you trying to say? I don't see why you have to be rude man i'm coming here for advice. You said Hire some one? HA! Fuck that, i don't want to hire anyone, where is the learning experience in that? Hire some one and be dependent on an audio guy forever? no siiir, I plan on pulling a Robert Rodriguez on this project.
I'm not being rude; I'm being honest.
You are going to have your plate full on Day 1 of shooting, and there is always something that ain't gonna happen right. Especially if you insist on doing everything yourself.
Good luck on your shoot. I mean that.
The issue is "Who's going to run the sound for you?" Once you are on the set someone else will be swinging the boom, working the recorder and monitoring the audio. You can spend the next year learning everything you can about audio, but how do you convey that information to whomever you designate as your PSM/boom-op on your set? Unless you retain someone his/her knowledge will probably be even less than you know now. How will having passable, decent or great gear overcome that obstacle?
You can get good audio with an H4n and an NTG-2; it just takes more attention to detail, more time and learning some skills. But all of that is, literally, completely out of your hands once you start production.
Filmmaking is a TEAM SPORT. You must rely on others - unless are you planning on running the camera, setting up the lights, running the sound, slating every shot and doing all of the acting plus the myriad other tasks requisite to filmmaking.
The DR100 is a little better than the H4N. Not much, but noticeably so and it also works a little better with mixer once you learn. I would recommend my own setup.
I have an ECM674, NTG2 (borrowed), boom, dead cat, blimp, DR100, H4N as backup (borrowed) and the SD Promix. In addition, I learned how to eliminate hiss in post and have a sound guy who can do a little sound engineering magic (first time I saw him at work, I was blown away - it was like voodoo!)
This sound setup is extremely basic - just about will capture and process some kind of sound.
Also, I know where you are coming from in that you want to learn how sound works. Is this good or bad? Don't know but guys like Tom Hooper, the Oscar winning director, learned how to record sound in his early days. Although I'm not really as smart as Tom...
RR has used a professional sound guy on every single film except El Mariachi... which spent over $100,000 at Columbus Pictures to re-mix and re-create the sound mix after they bought the cheap $7,000 version of the movie.
The El Mariachi audio technique was specifically, film the scene, then ADR the scene wild on set with a marantz casette tape recorder and a relatively cheap microphone from 6"-1' away from the actor. Then while editing, he hand synched the dialog to the picture, with cutaways and edits to cover any badly synched lip movement.
His audio SUCKED! before they spent all the money to fix it for him.... by hiring people like Alcove and APE to work on it for a few months with all their fancy gear.
That Zoom will get you good audio. I wouldn't bother selling it. I'd work on finding someone that will swing boom for you on EVERY SINGLE SHOOT you do. That way, they can get the time in to learn that craft. The Zoom resets its levels every time you turn it off, so be aware that you'll need to readjust them every time.
Get a decent shotgun mic (decent starts around $250). I recently upgraded to an AT875R and love it. It requires phantom power form the zoom, but sounds great.
The microphone quality and the technique will be a much more noticeable upgrade to your sound capture environment than replacing the recorder at this stage and budget level. Below the $500 mark for recorders, you'll get lots of hiss from the cheap electronics that keep the price in the budget range -- anything under that price point will have the same problems and frustrate you. We compensate for the cheap preamp noise by framing your shot a little tighter so you can get the microphone a little closer to get a better signal to noise ratio in your capture.
The inverse square law works here just as well as it does in lighting and cinematography. half the distance = 4 x the volume!
His audio SUCKED! before they spent all the money to fix it for him.... by hiring people like Alcove and APE to work on it for a few months with all their fancy gear.
That Zoom will get you good audio. I wouldn't bother selling it. I'd work on finding someone that will swing boom for you on EVERY SINGLE SHOOT you do. That way, they can get the time in to learn that craft. The Zoom resets its levels every time you turn it off, so be aware that you'll need to readjust them every time.
Get a decent shotgun mic (decent starts around $250). I recently upgraded to an AT875R and love it. It requires phantom power form the zoom, but sounds great.
The microphone quality and the technique will be a much more noticeable upgrade to your sound capture environment than replacing the recorder at this stage and budget level. Below the $500 mark for recorders, you'll get lots of hiss from the cheap electronics that keep the price in the budget range -- anything under that price point will have the same problems and frustrate you. We compensate for the cheap preamp noise by framing your shot a little tighter so you can get the microphone a little closer to get a better signal to noise ratio in your capture.
The inverse square law works here just as well as it does in lighting and cinematography. half the distance = 4 x the volume!
You're the one being rude, not him, so calm down.
Like some have already said here you can get good sound with the Zoom H4N and the NTG2. If you can't then you're doing something wrong, the problem is not the equipment.
Murphy's Law
Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Fifth Corollary of Murphy's Law
Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, at the worst possible time, in the worst possible way.
O'Toole's Commentary on Murphy's Law
Murphy was an optimist.
Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Fifth Corollary of Murphy's Law
Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, at the worst possible time, in the worst possible way.
O'Toole's Commentary on Murphy's Law
Murphy was an optimist.
Your first lesson will be you didn't do nearly enough planning, or listen to good advice. You'll do a lot more planning and listen to some of that advice prior to your second shoot. Your next lesson after that shoot will be you still didn't do nearly enough planning, nor listen to more good advice.
If you're in this for a hobby and to have some fun you can do as you please. But of you want to make a career out of it you must learn to follow proper methods and protocols.
"The difference between a hobbyist and a professional is that while
a hobbyist can learn from his mistakes,
a professional can learn from the mistakes of others."
a hobbyist can learn from his mistakes,
a professional can learn from the mistakes of others."