Recording Audio in a car with 10 people inside

[supercarz]

Hey everybody

It's been a looonnnngggg time since I last posted and I am now in the midst of pre-production on a short and have just begun to realize the hurdle I have created in front of me.

My short is nearly all just one shot (looking through the front windscreen of a car) where more and more people fit into a car until there is 10 people inside - and everyone has speaking roles.

The setup is 2 people in the front and passenger seat - 5 people in the back seats and 3 in the boot. (it's a station-wagon car so you will be able to see them with the camera shot)

I am recording with a DSLR so the audio will be done separately.

I am still debating how I should record the audio.

The best argument I have had is to put a shotgun mic at the front up-top near the rear vision mirror to record the front two and to put another shotgun mic up by the middle light on the interior roof to record the people sitting in the back seats and in the boot.

I have basically ruled out lapel mics cos since it will be so tight there will be a lot of unwanted noise if I put them on the talent.

I think the only problem might be with the shotgun mic idea is that I will have to angle the shotgun mics from the roof down to the talents faces and thus they will most likely appear in the shot. (as i've said it's all one shot through the front windscreen) I could put the shotgun mics on the floor and angle them up which would be easy for the front two but with 5 people crammed in the back and 3 people in the boot who would be most likely inaudible if I had a shotgun mic on the floor there would be no where to put it.

ahhh!!!!!

Anyone have any ideas??

Thanks heaps

 

[Chrisk]

Shotgun mics may be a bit big and unwieldy and unless they are aimed squarely at the source they will probs sound worse than another choice of mic. I've never had to do anything like this before but I would consider a few planted mics in similar positions you have mentioned. Discreetly placed lavs or PZMs are very popular in these situations. I would ideally like to place cardiods on the back of the headrests for the guys in the back and maybe lavs or mics planted on the sun visors for those in front.
Will the car be moving while these people deliver their lines, how controlled is the audio around the van, is this shot in a quiet lot or out on the street? If cars aren't actually moving they are quite acoustically dead negating the need for directional mics to a degree. If the car is moving or in a noisy environment then you may end up in the ADR suite

 

[knightly]

I've planted lavs in the visors and seat headrests to capture car audio. Worked well.

 

[Alcove Audio]

ChrisK and Knightly have covered it fairly well. What you need to do before making any decisions, however, is to break down the shot completely.

My short is nearly all just one shot (looking through the front windscreen of a car) where more and more people fit into a car until there is 10 people inside - and everyone has speaking roles.

Lots of questions...

Is this one long continuous shot? Or will it be edited?

Where is the camera mounted?

How extensive is the dialog?

So you are adding "passengers" one or two at a time. Does every single person have a complete line when the next passenger gets in? By a complete line I mean "Good morning, Phil; how's the wife and kids" as opposed to most of the passengers just giving an absent "Good morning," "Hi," or a grunt. What are the passengers doing once they're in the car? Using smart phones? Reading the paper?

Chris asked a very pertinent question; is the car moving? Now you will have to deal with wind issues if the windows are open, or AC/heater noise if the windows are closed. Another issue will be the opening and closing of the doors.

There are lots more questions that need to be answered before you can start working out definitive answers. It could be possible to get away with just two mics; you may need ten wireless lavs. As a very rough guess I would say that you will need an absolute minimum of four (4) plant mics. This is one of those situations where you will need to storyboard out the whole scene rather carefully and possibly rewrite it a little. Oh, are you able to record ISO or will the PSM be mixing on the fly?


"There are no short cuts on sound , just audible compromises." - Peter Groom

 

[supercarz]

Hey guys thanks all for the reply's.

The car will be in a controlled environment and not moving as the idea is a taxi that has parked and people all start jumping in.

In answering Chrisk and Alcove's questions

1. Yep it is one continuous shot, it will be edited for color grading, foley etc but no cuts.
2. The camera is mounted on the front bonnet looking through the front windscreen at around head height.
3. In terms of dialogue - it is quite extensive - when people get in they will each be saying at least 5 lines with another person already in the taxi e.g. - "hey guys is this taxi taken" "Yes" "Sweet i'll scab a lift to town" "We're already taken man" "Has anyone got any beer on them" "I said this is already taken!" etc

Once they are in the car the passengers will be either eating or drinking beer or playing on their phones or talking to each other.

Everyone hops in one at a time after the person before has kinda established his character and made a few funny remarks so another thing I am worried about like Alcove said is door slamming with the audio - but I guess I can just tell the talent to close them softly.

Yea I agree this is going to take a lot of rehearsals and planning to get everything right. I guess the one major good thing I have going for me is the controlled environment (i,e, my garage.)

And to answer your last question alcove, I am pretty certain we will be record ISO.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Okay, you can plant one mic in the visor or the rear view mirror. One plant mic behind each headrest will take care of the the four in the center, and the last mic behind one of the middle seats headrests to take care of the back row.

The most important thing is you'll have to block the scene so the actors are speaking towards the mics. You should also try to set it up that there is only one person speaking into each mic at a time. Obviously you will be better off if you have an additional mic for each group of people, and the optimum is one mic for each actor.

Just make sure that no one is speaking when the doors slam; you can always edit out the nasty production sound door slams with some better ones in audio post.

I also want to be sure that you understand that ISO means there is an audio recorder for each mic.

The choice of mics is yours. Lavs will work well in the controlled environment, or hypers will do okay. The biggest thing to do is to experiment; a super or a standard cardioid may be you best option, depending upon the vehicle and the placements. This one is tricky, so you'll have to play around with things until you get it right.

The more mics/tracks you have the better your chance of success as you will have more control in audio post. You are also going to have to rehearse this to death, so lines are very tight on each other without stepping on each other.

 

[supercarz]

Hey Alcove

Thanks, yea I totally thought ISO meant something different.

With all the options you listed in terms of mic's what do you think would be the most cost efficient?

I was initially going to record the two shotguns to a zoom H4n but with 4 mics what do you think I should use?

As you can tell I am lacking a sound op so am inexperienced in this field.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Alcove Audio]

"There are no short cuts on sound , just audible compromises." - Peter Groom

Option #1 - Hire A Pro. This is your best option. S/He will have a multi-track recorder and all the required mics, know how to place them for optimum effect and will be able to monitor for small problems that you would never notice. The downside is that it is expensive.

Option #2 - Hook Up With A Talented, Ambitious Up-And-Comer. This person will have some decent audio knowledge, more experience than you do, and solid basic production sound gear. S/He will have suggestions as to what additional gear may need to be rented.

Option #3 - Do It Yourself. My least favorite option. Since you will be directing you will most probably have to rely on someone with less than your minimal audio knowledge to handle and monitor the audio.

If you want to crowd me into a corner as far as DIY gear goes I would rent. Something like the Edirol/Roland R-44 would be my choice for an audio recorder. It records four (4) discrete audio channels and has rudimentary mixing controls. I would get four (4) lavs, preferably matched. I like Countryman EMW, B3 or B6; Sanken COS-1;1 or Tram TR-50. (Guess what, this will cost you as much or more than hiring the up-and-comer.) Set them up as I described in my previous post - plant one mic in the visor or the rear view mirror, one plant mic behind each headrest will take care of the the four in the center, and the last mic behind one of the middle seats headrests to take care of the back row.

Again, this will have to rehearsed to death and blocked to the tenth decimal place. Don't be pig-headed, if you need to make blocking or script changes, get them done! You are planning on one single long shot; since your camera is static, despite what is occurring visually, everything is going to hang on the dialog. If you FUBAR the audio you've wasted your time, your money, your actors time and your crews time. That's why I recommend going with Option #1 or #2. It is going to take experience and finesse to capture the audio correctly and, no offense, you just aren't up to the task unless you spend enormous amounts of time - which you should be spending on directing.