Reaction to suggestions

dlevanchuk

dlevanchuk

How do you react when a crew member or a cast member gives you a suggestion, wether you re directing, or operating the camera?

For me its sort of a little inner battle.. if the suggestion came from a person that I never worked with, I typically say something along the lines of "we ll try it, depending on the schedule". If its somebody who I worked with before, I'll try it out, but ifim directing, I really try not to do it, so I don't loose control with the actor..

What about you? Are you worried about loosing control on the set? Any horror stories?
 
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Control is an illusion.

I have just recently entered the work of producer, and still work quite a bit on set as a production sound mixer/boom op. I will typically refrain from making any kind of suggestion unless it appears that the director/DP are struggling to solve a problem. If I've seen the problem before, and a remedy, I'll offer it as such...."we ran into this shooting xxx, and they ended up doing xxx." Otherwise, I'll keep my mouth shut unless what they are doing interferes with getting good sound, and then I'll point out the problem, the impact to sound, make a suggestion or two that would help the sound portion, and then leave it up to them to decide.
 
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If it's a good idea, try it. If it's not, then just say "I'll keep it in mind," or something similar. The important thing is to make a decision on it quickly, so that it's apparent that you're still the one running the show.
 
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Especially when people are volunteer workers, it's nice to give them a little voice. There's a few guys of course that I actually encourage to speak up, their ideas are great. Others, I ask them to give all their ideas before we start. Either in a pre-production meeting or at the very start of set. I politely explain that:

"We have X amount of stuff to do and only X amount of time to finish. I know there's going to be stuff that you see and you think we should get, but we have a strict shooting schedule of stuff we know has to be done. If it's such a phenomenal, ground breaking idea that will make or break the picture, let the AD know or department head (DP if camera shot, production designer if prop, etc) and if they agree they'll let the rest of us know."

Every now and then people will start slacking off during a long set up or start chatting. I got over being shy/too polite a while ago. When I see it I yell it out haha, and tell them to wait for a break.

Funny enough, one of our camera ops always has good ideas but takes 10 minutes explaining each one. Whenever he comes up now I interrupt and say "Dude, I trust you, just go do it" and that's the time saver haha.

Having an AD or Production Manager on set that can take charge and be the "bad guy" helps too. That way you, the director, don't make an actor mad saying that you don't have time for their brilliant idea and they in turn don't give the performance they would have because you hurt their feelings. You can be on "their side", "yeah, that is a great idea, but he's right we gotta hurry up".
 
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I've watched a lot of DVD director commentaries, from which the general response is pretty much just what you're doing.

On Sylvester Stallone's THE EXPENDABLES he pretty much takes a token grasp of the script, lets anyone who wants to make a suggestion go for it, they small group discuss it on set, practice a run through three or four times, give it a couple takes and move on. He doesn't seem to lose much control over the process even though he appears to be the loosest director I've run across.

On Eli Roth's CABIN FEVER he had a horribly fast shooting schedule that kept everyone running like mad men (which probably cut down on extraneous "suggestions") but still routinely conversed with the immediate cast and core crew on how the scene is supposed to go and what else could we do, shot it two or three times and then moved on. Everyone seemed pleased to "be a part of the process".

On Paul Greengrass' GREEN ZONE Matt Damon fairly ran amok on a medium length leash of Paul's. Everything was constantly up for multi-approach debates and discussions.

On Chris Kentis' OPEN WATER he and the two principle cast members stated they stuck to the script, but then routinely stated how they ad libbed and double shot many scenes AFTER they performed and shot what was scripted. This seemed to be the tightest director controlled shoot of those I can recall where it was discussed.



Hope these are useful perspectives.
 
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I have found that feedback is great. However, you get a whole bunch of advice from people who've never done what they are advising you on. You get legal advice from people who've never been to law school. You get film distribution advice from people who've never sold a movie. I love suggestions, but frankly the people working on your "indie" production probably haven't won many awards or created any blockbuster movies. They will have some good ideas but in most cases there's no "objective" reason to believe these ideas will work. Of course they might. 8-)
 
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On my film stuff where there is a "full" (read 8 to 12 people) crew we use my perception of proper etiquette for any "work" environment which is chain of command. If you have an idea to tell it to the DP or the first AD. If they think it's a good idea they'll pass it on to me.
 
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I love it when people make suggestions.

There have been some rare instances in which it just wouldn't be possible to take suggestions, due to an extreme time-constraint, and on those occasion, I simply communicated to the cast/crew that we need to pretty much nail everything on the first take, and move on immediately to the next shot.

But that's a crazy way to make a film. I've gotten kind of good at the insane run-and-gun method, but it's definitely not how I want to make movies. The way I want to make movies is definitely on a tight schedule, but not so tight that I can't listen to new ideas. Some of those new ideas are gold-mines, and I think I've improved as a filmmaker, as I've learned to allow my sets to be more collaborative.

As far as how you react, I think you might be imagining (as many people do) the situation to be far more complicated than it is. I think in almost all instances, simple rules of politeness are all you need. If I don't like an idea, I do my best to explain why I prefer to keep things the way originally planned. But I very often DO like the new idea, so we tend to keep things dynamic on my set (or, at least we try to).

As is true in the rest of the world, "please" and "thank you" go a long way. Praise people's work, make sure they know they're appreciated. And listen. I think that's about the gist of it. Do those things, and I think all should be well.
 
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I'm not qualified to say, but your question reminded me of two interviews I've seen on Youtube.


Kevin Smith - Great Filmmaking Advice. The germane part comes in the first half-ish of the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-PRLEM3To



The Social Network - David Fincher Interview Part 1. The germane part starts at about (03:46).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqU4lEkNokk
 
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OP said: How do you react when a crew member or a cast member gives you a suggestion, whether you re directing, or operating the camera?

Say: "I'll think about it."

(then move on and NEVER GIVE IT ANOTHER THOUGHT! You're making a movie and you don't time to take suggestions, even good ones. Its your dime, your time and you're in control of the board. If you yield just once, the board controls you for the rest of the shoot!)

:)
 
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chilipie said:
:hmm:

Not entirely sure I follow the logic on this one… why bother having a crew if you don't want their advice and expertise?
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I want the makeup director's advice on makeup. I want the DP's advice on lighting, I want the sound guys advice on sound. If the sound guy has an idea about lighting or the grip has an idea about the delivery of a line, they should give it to the AD who may or may not pass it along to me. If they approach me directly about it they are breaking protocol IMO.
 
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If you've done your job right, you've surrounded yourself with smart creative people who want to help you make the best project possible (especially if you're paying them with that end product). Ignoring those suggestions is a horrible idea (no offense intended GA)... but you do still need to weigh it against what is in your head.

Given time as a constraint rather than budget, if someone comes up with a solution that makes the shot take less time, you should absolutely consider that... allowing you to take more time getting it right.

Alternately, if you've surrounded yourself with people you don't trust... WTF?

Also Alternately, if you're such a brilliant artist that no one else can improve on the way to get your art where you need it to be... you may not get the suggestions anyway -- nor a crew that will be willing to come back and work with you on your next project.
 
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Gonzo_Entertainment said:
I want the makeup director's advice on makeup. I want the DP's advice on lighting, I want the sound guys advice on sound. If the sound guy has an idea about lighting or the grip has an idea about the delivery of a line, they should give it to the AD who may or may not pass it along to me. If they approach me directly about it they are breaking protocol IMO.
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I just short my first short. The makeup lady had done a load of television, short etc... stuff. She was absolutely fantastic and knew more about film making than I did!

My take is is to listen, then if we have time, stick it in there.
 
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chilipie said:
:hmm:

Not entirely sure I follow the logic on this one… why bother having a crew if you don't want their advice and expertise?
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Apparently we're of two different worlds -- not that there's anything wrong with it.

Basically on micro budget and many low budget production the director is the "smartest person in the room". Indeed, my "crew" were mostly utilized as "gofers" and "holdthis" people. Unless I was making an obvious gaffe, feedback from the crew/cast usually result in having to give a filmmaking lesson. "I'll think about it" keeps production moving.

On the other hand, bigger budget productions allow you to hire experts more skilled than you -- these guys, sure you want their input. Still, you would need a gatekeeper during production to keep the distractions at bay. Correct?
 
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GA: I started at that same point and didn't start getting folks to come back to my sets until I changed the way I dealt with them on set... knowledge that came from years of working collaboratively on large projects developing Hardware/software solutions.

You can absolutely continue to work the way you do now and have to replace the monkeys on your set every shoot once they realize you don't care what they think... or you can take a little extra time now to build stronger relationships with them -- and educate them to be able to have valuable opinions. If you're going to work collaboratively, do it... otherwise, don't insult your crew by treating them/considering them like idiots.

Level that playing field... all the while, building the environment where you are still firmly the last answer for these things. We now have cast/crew calling us asking when the next shoot is going to be. There is no effort pulling together a cast/crew of 50 people at the drop of a hat. But it took the time to build that from the ground up. If you continue to look only at the current project, you'll burn out before you hit your stride. And no one here wants to see that :) Be the smartest guy on set, but only by a little.
 
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A very large portion of the "suggestions" process should have taken place during preproduction; that's what preproduction is for. The argument about whether or not to take suggestions on the set should have been settled during preproduction, because now you have some idea of the capabilities and trustworthiness of your crew; you have some idea of whom to pay close attention and who you can put off. The issue is not just "is the suggestion worthy," there is a budget and schedule to maintain. With a small crew it's easier to access the director, but as crew sizes increase the director cannot be subjected to a constant bombardment of suggestions and ideas from all sides - it wastes too much time!

Once you are in a position to hire folks (even for-expenses, for-the-experience up-and-comers) the professionals will adhere to protocol; if it's extremely important they will come directly to you, if it's important they'll corral the first AD or the line producer, if it's a just a suggestion they will approach their department head.
 
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knightly said:
or you can take a little extra time now to build stronger relationships with them -- and educate them to be able to have valuable opinions.
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Of course. As the previous poster pointed out, preproduction is a good time for that. I have a few people in mind that I've observed from the first time around that I'll be asking first for the next production -- hopefully with decent pay.

If you're going to work collaboratively, do it... otherwise, don't insult your crew by treating them/considering them like idiots.
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Agreed. I'm not House. I keep my thoughts to myself. :)

If you continue to look only at the current project, you'll burn out before you hit your stride. And no one here wants to see that :) Be the smartest guy on set, but only by a little.
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Agreed.
 
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The neat thing is that as you build a regular crew (and a larger one), you start to expect that the suggestions you get will actually save you time -- because they know how you work as well as the need for speed. So many of the suggestions you get will be ones to shave shots and get setups done faster (and some to make sure you have the right coverage in a scene so you won't go crazy in editing).

Building that regular crew is a difficult and tedious process that always feels like you're teetering on the brink of failure and doom. Once done, it's absolutely worth the time you've spent on it.
 
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