Quote for the computer I am considering...here it is...

[spinner]

...Okay, guys, I need some feedback. Here is the quote on the computer system I am about to purchase. I want to run it by you all and get any suggestions you could give. How do I bring the price down? is the most important question I have. Can I bring it down is another. Any recommendations? Comments? Concerns? I need all the help I can get before I spend this kind of money....

Apple powerbook G4 15" Super 1.67GHz $2,200
Internal hard drive 80GB
512MB of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM; supports up to 2GB
Graphics ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 with 64MB of DDR SDRAM

LaCie firewire external hard drive 250GB $180
Acer 19" monitor $339 ($249 after rebate)
Ante notebook cooler $40
external keyboard/mouse $65 (trying to make it as close to my pc as possible

Apple care 3yrs $350; Mac virus protection $90 (should I just get Norton?)

All this comes out to $3,363 I can go wireless if I want to, do I want to?

I realy feel I can get a monitor for less that $340. So long as it is LCD, does it REALLY matter about the monitor so long as what comes out of it looks good? I understand that you need to know what you are looking at, but isn't it possible to get a MUCH Cheaper monitor that will do what I need it to? I also want to get about two extra batteries, can't be too carerful, you know...

I still need to get a tripod, wide angle lens, rain bonnet for my DVX, a couple of mics, boom, so every dollar counts here. I want to get these things soon also.

C'mon, my brothers, my sisters in arms! Help a sister out . I have to pull off this freakin' hat trick and time's a wastin'!

--spinner

 

[rrk1962]

...

Apple care 3yrs $350; Mac virus protection $90 (should I just get Norton?)

All this comes out to $3,363 I can go wireless if I want to, do I want to?

I realy feel I can get a monitor for less that $340. So long as it is LCD, does it REALLY matter about the monitor so long as what comes out of it looks good? I understand that you need to know what you are looking at, but isn't it possible to get a MUCH Cheaper monitor that will do what I need it to? I also want to get about two extra batteries, can't be too carerful, you know...
--spinner

I'm in PCville so can I only give you info from my side of the street but I'm WAY to cheap to pop for that much monitor. I'm guessing you're trying to maximize what you spend, I'd say any good 17 inch will do the trick. They key is to get a good profile so what you see is what you'll get on output.

And there is so much free firewall software, ZoneAlarm in the PC world, that I'd never buy a commercial package. Wireless is worth the fairly small cost, routers are around $40 and a snap to configure.

 

[David513]

As a Mac user (PowerBook and iMac), I have a couple of comments/suggestions:

-- This is a minor cost, but I would suggest that spending $90 for virus protection is a waste of your money. There are exactly ZERO known Mac OS X viruses. No spyware, either. They're theoretically possible on ANY platform, but they don't exist after OS X has been out for something like five or six years. If it ever happens, it will be HUGE news, so you'd be sure to hear about it immediately.

-- Buy your RAM from a quality third-party vendor instead of getting it with your PowerBook. You'll save money. OS X is picky about wanting quality RAM, but the Apple add-on RAM is generally far too expensive. I've had good luck with Ramjet memory (http://www.ramjet.com/), but there are plenty of good choices that will let you save a bit of money.

-- If you're going to continue to use a Windows machine, too, you might want to consider a KVM switch and not buy another monitor and keyboard. A KVM switch (which is an acronym for keyboard, video and monitor) will allow you to flip a switch to determine which computer your monitor and keyboard are connected to. As long as you have a USB keyboard and mouse, it'll work fine with OS X. (And the extra buttons you might be accustomed to using should work fine, too.)

-- I'm not sure why you'd need the notebook cooler, but maybe you have a reason I don't know about. My 12-inch PowerBook can get a bit warm at times, but it's never been serious enough to need cooling.

-- DO get AppleCare. It's a good insurance policy, especially as expensive as laptop parts are to replace.

-- I'm not sure I understand your question about wireless, since a WiFi card and Bluetooth are both built into the PowerBooks. If you're talking about whether to buy a wireless router in addition to this stuff, I'd certainly recommend it just because it's dirt cheap (as another poster points out), but remember that you can use other people's WiFi networks (or Bluetooth connection to your cell phone) with the stock PowerBook.

If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them.

David

 

[spinner]

-- Buy your RAM from a quality third-party vendor instead of getting it with your PowerBook. You'll save money. OS X is picky about wanting quality RAM, but the Apple add-on RAM is generally far too expensive. I've had good luck with Ramjet memory (http://www.ramjet.com/), but there are plenty of good choices that will let you save a bit of money.

....I think the memory is already installed unless you mean my external hard drive when you say memory Damned terminology, why do you mock me???

-- If you're going to continue to use a Windows machine, too, you might want to consider a KVM switch and not buy another monitor and keyboard. A KVM switch (which is an acronym for keyboard, video and monitor) will allow you to flip a switch to determine which computer your monitor and keyboard are connected to. As long as you have a USB keyboard and mouse, it'll work fine with OS X. (And the extra buttons you might be accustomed to using should work fine, too.)

...would this mean I could still use my pc monitor and keyboard?

-- I'm not sure why you'd need the notebook cooler, but maybe you have a reason I don't know about. My 12-inch PowerBook can get a bit warm at times, but it's never been serious enough to need cooling.

...the cooler seems to make sense to me because I expect to beat the heck out of this computer. Which is why I want to make sure it can handle the work load. I expect to be on the road alot if I am lucky...

...about the wireless, I did mean the router, but I have no idea what 'bluetooth' is...and thanks about the AppleCare, I was wondering whether or not to get it...

Thanks alot for the help...and welcome to the site. You will find that there are alot of really good people here. Look around and have fun..

...and everybody else, c'mon! I think I will be making this purchase next week...

--spinner

 

[David513]

For serious video use, you will need more RAM than the 512 MB that comes standard in the machine, IMHO. At the risk of telling you something you already know, there are two different types of memory in a computer. Your hard drive space is sort of like filing cabinets for longer-term storage, but RAM (which means random access memory) is what your computer's "brain" uses when it's working. It is the "thinking space" that is avaiable to the processor at any given moment. Video is very RAM-intensive, so you want all of it that you can afford.

Yes, with a KVM switch, you could have a setup where you use your PC monitor and keyboard IF the keyboard and mouse are USB (instead of something like PS2 connectors). Here is an example of a two-port DVM switch for $92.

http://www.kvms.com/nav/item.asp?item=4551

Your PowerBook could have an output that runs to the PC monitor (through the KVM switch) and the keyboard input to the KVM would plug into one of the PowerBook's USB ports. Of course, when you unplug the PowerBook to be portable, you'll be using the built-in monitor and keyboard.

Bluetooth is a wireless technology for short-range peripherals. For instance, I use my Bluetooth-enabled cell phone to wirelessly connect to my iMac to transfer information from the Mac's address book. There are also a variety of other Bluetooth devices, such as headsets, mice, etc. Either way, the capability is built in to the PowerBook, so it's there if you want it.

I have found Apple's service (through AppleCare) to be excellent. I'm sure there are some people who have had bad experiences at times, but I've had mostly good experience with the tech support people on the phone and superior service at getting stuff repaired on the rare times when I've had problems. Keep in mind that in addition to repairing problems, you're also paying for phone support for problems you have with the operating system. If you're new to the Mac world, that is helpful, although you'll find a LOT of friendly and helpful people on Mac-oriented technical sites, too.

One more thing about WiFi. Even if you don't have a wireless router at home, remember that there are a TON of places that offer wireless access in public now. For instance, I believe you mentioned that you plan to be traveling with it. A lot of motels have WiFi access, so you can sit in your motel room and do online work wirelessly. I regularly pull into motel parking lots when I need a high-speed connection for just a moment. There are even a few fast food restaurants around here that offer free WiFi. Once again, you get that as a standard feature of the PowerBook, whether you buy a wireless router for home or not.

Let me know if I'm just confusing any issues.

David

 

[spinner]

For serious video use, you will need more RAM than the 512 MB that comes standard in the machine, IMHO. At the risk of telling you something you already know, there are two different types of memory in a computer. Your hard drive space is sort of like filing cabinets for longer-term storage, but RAM (which means random access memory) is what your computer's "brain" uses when it's working. It is the "thinking space" that is avaiable to the processor at any given moment. Video is very RAM-intensive, so you want all of it that you can afford.

...I will be getting external hard drive, but I don't know enough about computers to install more RAM. maybe I can have it installed and get a monitor later. (I will probably be giving my pc to my mother.) So, I still need an inexpensive monitor, any suggestions? I also think I will go to best buy and see how much their external hard drives are going for. maybe I can get a deal since everyone is having a back to school sale.
I don't have to get everything at once I suppose...does everything else look okay?

--spinner

 

[Beeblebrox]

Apple powerbook G4 15" Super 1.67GHz $2,200
Internal hard drive 80GB
512MB of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM; supports up to 2GB
Graphics ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 with 64MB of DDR SDRAM

This model actually costs $2300, not 2200. Don't know if you're getting a discount or not, but I'll use the official price for now.

In any case, you're starting out with a very high ticket item, so cutting costs elsewhere isn't going to be easy. A few bucks here and there probably doesn't mean that much when you're shelling out over $2K for the computer itself.

LaCie firewire external hard drive 250GB $180
Acer 19" monitor $339 ($249 after rebate)
Ante notebook cooler $40
external keyboard/mouse $65 (trying to make it as close to my pc as possible

You might be able to go with a smaller external HDD and save some money now, then get a bigger one when you can afford it.

I would also forget the external monitor for now but do get a Mac keyboard and a Logitech mouse.

Apple care 3yrs $350; Mac virus protection $90 (should I just get Norton?)

Forget the virus protection. Even if you do want it, there are free alternatives out there.

Personally, I think extended warranties are for suckers, but I have heard of problems with Powerbook displays going bad. Keep in mind, that you do get one year warranty for free and you can upgrade to Applecare anytime within that year.

So the total I come up with is $2585, if you postpone Applecare, the monitor, and cancel the virus protection.

 

[Boz Uriel]

I've never even so much as touched a Mac in my whole life. Just so you know where this is coming from but I'd like to take issue with the 1.67GHz processor. Seems a bit weak to me for that price. Mid range processors are almost up to 3 GHz now so lower end pricing should fall around 2.5 GHz. I think you're buying yourself short if you get the 1.67 chip. Then again I have no idea how Mac chips are so this comes strictly from the PC side of things. Either way spinner, I hope you're error free with it! Good luck bud.

 

[Beeblebrox]

Just so you know where this is coming from but I'd like to take issue with the 1.67GHz processor. Seems a bit weak to me for that price.

Heh. Welcome to the world of Mac. Hopefully this will be changing with the switch to Intel chips, but Macs have always lagged behind in clock speed. Right now the fastest Mac is a G5 dual 2.7 Ghz. The Powerbooks are even further behind, with a G4 1.6 Ghz being the fastest.

I know people who use 1.0 Ghz Powerbooks for editing, so it still should be fast enough.

I have heard rumors that they are about to update the Powerbooks with the G5, however, so anyone about to purchase a Powerbook might want to wait for the announcement.

 

[spinner]

I have heard rumors that they are about to update the Powerbooks with the G5, however, so anyone about to purchase a Powerbook might want to wait for the announcement.

...Avid newscutter is being installed where I work so I asked an Avid Guy about this and he says that the new up grade in Apple is about 2 years away and the same with the intel chip, but you can never keep up with the technology anyway so, I'm getting the G4. Btw, the laptop is what I am about to purchase.

...any suggestions about RAM? How much should I be looking at getting? As much as you can afford doesn't tell me what will do what I should be purchasing. I am going to be editing a feature lenght doc, what should I get?

--spinner

 

[CommanderGoat]

If you really want to save money, you can buy a Refurbished Mac. It looks like you can get the 15" you want for $1999, or you could upgrade to the 17" with more hard drive space and video memory for the same price as a new 15"...but the screen will suck up more battery.

The first computer I ever bought was refurbished and it was just fine, but it was not an Apple. I haven't heard anything about Apple's refurbished products, but they are all "Apple Certified"...whatever that means....so they must be ok if they can sell them.

Or you can always check out eBay, but I've personally think most people on eBay are overpaying for a used Mac....but you may find a really good deal. I would feel better about buying a refurb from Apple vs. a used one from someone I don't know.

I think apple has Student discounts, so maybe you should look into that if you're a student. I know I can get a discount through my company and it would save me a few hundred dollars, so maybe you should ask around your work or school if you get any type of discounts. Get everything free that's coming to you. Heck, maybe someone needs to sell their mac.

Also....you're spending all this money on a nice system, but what software are you going to run? Final Cut Pro? You need to factor that into your budget unless......you're......uhhh...ummm....borrowing software.........

The laptop you want has only 2 slots for memory, and each will take up to 1 Gig of memory, for a total of 2 Gigs. And I would max out the RAM at it's 2 Gig limit...but that's probably not an afforable solution. You really should get the most you can afford. If you decide to upgrade to 1 gig of RAM, I would not install 2 separte 512 mb sticks to equal 1 Gig even though it's cheaper. I would buy one 1 gig stick, that way if you upgrade later, you will not have to throw away(or sell) 512mb of memory(possibly twice if you want 2 Gigs in the future).......I hope this makes sense.

 

[Beeblebrox]

...any suggestions about RAM? How much should I be looking at getting? As much as you can afford doesn't tell me what will do what I should be purchasing. I am going to be editing a feature lenght doc, what should I get?

I'd say 1 GB at the minimum. I know a few editors and none of them have 2 GB of RAM.

 

[spinner]

\ It looks like you can get the 15" you want for $1999, or you could upgrade to the 17" with more hard drive space and video memory for the same price as a new 15"...but the screen will suck up more battery.

...I am going with the 15" because it seems as though it will be just the right size for someone traveling...
...I am going to go with the new laptop because I expect to be using it a looong time, I am not a student so no discount for me. But I am making an investment in myself with this computer, so it has to be right the first time....

Also....you're spending all this money on a nice system, but what software are you going to run? Final Cut Pro? You need to factor that into your budget unless......you're......uhhh...ummm....borrowing software.........

...um, Final Cut Pro, that's why I want the Mac....
...I think that maybe I'll hold off on the monitor and get the tripod and wide angle lens for my cam. It seems I may be just getting the computer at first, probably with the warranty. I also think I will get the 1GB of Ram. I will probably get external hard drive(about 250-300GB) and add more on to it later.

--spinner

 

[spinner]

...btw, guys, can anyone recommend a wide angle lens?...

--spinner

 

[CootDog]

Don't do it!

... but remember that you can use other people's WiFi networks (or Bluetooth connection to your cell phone) with the stock PowerBook.

Just to let you all know, that connecting to another person's network is against the law. They have been arresting and prosecuting people that are doing it. While you may not feel like there's anything wrong with it morally, you are actually stealing bandwidth and gaining unauthorized access to a computer network. Both charges can get you jail time and a fine. Then if it's proven that you are doing illegal activities on these networks, you will gain more jail time and/or fines.


I've done it, yes. Is it wrong? yes. Can I get busted for it? Yes.

It's my job to find unauthorized users or access points on client networks. I am in Technology Risk Management (professional hacker) and it wouldn't take me but a few seconds to find out who's on the network and capture the MAC address. Then that information would be used in the prosecution.

Just thought I'd let you all know.

 

[rrk1962]

It's my job to find unauthorized users or access points on client networks. I am in Technology Risk Management (professional hacker) and it wouldn't take me but a few seconds to find out who's on the network and capture the MAC address. Then that information would be used in the prosecution.

Just thought I'd let you all know.

I'm no legal expert, so this is a question as well as a comment. Let's say a neighbor has an unsecured wireless hub connecting to the internet. Is that technically against the law? It's one thing to hack into a business network, that proves intent when you circumvent security. Heck, you could inadvertantly hook up to an open network if you don't understand how that works. There are places that deliberately allow access, they open themselves up and you often don't sign any agreements and there is no legal way to prove you had been allowed access. How does one "break in" when the door isn't locked? So is it against the law to ride the highway on an open access point? If you say yes, I'll belive you.

Of course, no one is going to hire a consultant to see who's neighbor is browsing porn off of a home pc network. And morally, if I have an open network and a neighbor hops on, I say share the love. It takes no time or effort to lock down a network with encryption, an open network by very definition allows access to one and all.

 

[CootDog]

Yes

I'm no legal expert, so this is a question as well as a comment. Let's say a neighbor has an unsecured wireless hub connecting to the internet. Is that technically against the law? ... How does one "break in" when the door isn't locked? So is it against the law to ride the highway on an open access point? If you say yes, I'll belive you.

Of course, no one is going to hire a consultant to see who's neighbor is browsing porn off of a home pc network. And morally, if I have an open network and a neighbor hops on, I say share the love. It takes no time or effort to lock down a network with encryption, an open network by very definition allows access to one and all.

Well I leave the door to my house unlocked sometimes, is it OK for you, or anyone to enter it? Is it OK for you to use my stuff or take things? The answer is no. So...Yes, it is against the law to use someone's open wireless access point. If you go to Starbucks or a Marriott, etc where they offer WiFi access, then it's fine, because it's offered to the public.

But I agree with you, if I leave my AP open, then use it. However, without permission it's technically against the law. The major problem is that companies, wireless router manufacturers, don't really suggest or tell people to secure their router. The directions that come with them show you how to hook it up and get on the internet, that's it. They say nothing about putting a password on the router or setting up an SSID. That is the fault of the manufacturers and a big problem, which is getting bigger and bigger.

So for those of you with the wireless routers, if you want to share the love, please do so BUT please put a password on the administrator function of the router. Because someone could attach to your network, login to your router and block YOU, or limit your bandwidth while giving themselves 90% of it and you the other 10%.

This is the line where a huge moral battle is taking place in some of the "Geek" forums. If someone installs a wireless router and leaves it open, is it morally OK to use it?


It's like cellphone conversations, wireless home phones, etc... those communications fly through the air, is it OK to listen? Legally, yes! But you can't use any of the information gained, as that is against the law.

 

[rrk1962]

Well I leave the door to my house unlocked sometimes, is it OK for you, or anyone to enter it? Is it OK for you to use my stuff or take things? The answer is no. So...Yes, it is against the law to use someone's open wireless access point. If you go to Starbucks or a Marriott, etc where they offer WiFi access, then it's fine, because it's offered to the public.

Thanks, CootDog, I just got curious and you are correct, apparently there is a case in Florida where someone has been arrested for just this. Here's the article link:

http://www.datadoctors.com/help/kenscolumns/column.cfm?id=17606

The most relevant quote from the article is below:

"The federal laws that generally govern this area (the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986 and the revised version known as the National Information Infrastructure Protection Act of 1996), were written well before open wireless access was a legal issue and the primary target of the legislation was the criminal computer hacker.

They were written to specifically address anyone who “intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access” with the prevailing concern being government agencies and financial institutions (the biggest targets during those periods).

The phrase “Whoever intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access” is followed by a series of statements that refers to intent, the security of the U.S. government and many other specifics that do no apply specifically to the current issue of open wireless access.

Since no one to date has been prosecuted (stay tuned to the Florida case as it may be the first) the law is considered ambiguous and in need of an update to specifically cover the proliferation of wireless networks."

Laws lag behind technology so we'll see what happens here. It's hard to imagine that this will be treated like some sort of real network intrusion but it is something to be careful of and who wants to be the test case?

It took a week for cable to install services when I moved recently and I was able to glom off of a neighbor to check email. It was sloooow and I didn't realize it was illegal. Honestly, I didn't hog bandwith with lots of surfing, that's just rude, but I popped my mail. Don't want to turn this into a geek forum but I had never even considered the legality of that.