Questions about a sound mixer.

[harmonica44]

I have been researching them and a lot of people agree it's better to use one, rather than clear up the audio in post. However, how do you know while filming, exactly which sounds you want in a movie and which sounds you don't? Like let's say you're filming a scene near a busy freeway, and there is a lot of freeway noise. You use your sound mixer to clear it up, but then after watching the finished footage, you realize, hey this scene is too quiet for a freeway, and we should have recorded some of that noise with the scene.

It just seems to me that you cannot know what makes it sound good, until you play it back afterwords. Even though the soundman can hear it while recording, he is too busy picking up the sounds and dialogue that are needed, rather than working a mixer simultaneously, to decide which background noises should be left in, as he goes. Is a mixer really necessary though? From things I've read on here it seems a lot of filmmakers are recording sound without them just fine. I read a mixer is mostly for eliminating unwanted humming noises. Humming for the building you are shooting in, such as the AC, or from the set lights, or the camera, etc. But it seems that most of today's lights and cameras are very quiet with no hum.

Another thing is is that they say often on here to use a cardioid mic for indoors and a shotgun for out. However if you have a mixer, then shouldn't it just be able remove any unwanted microphone echoes you would get with a cardioid, if it has the power to remove hums and all?

But how do you know what's good and what's not, while shooting, until after you play it back? And my last question is, since I wanna make a real professional movie to be put on DVD and perhaps even shown in some theaters, which cheap sound mixers are up to par, with accomplishing that good of quality of a job? Thanks.

 

[laughingcrow]

All you want is good dialogue and some room tone. Chances are nothing else is really important. If it is, it gets added as folie in post.

For example, I just saw a scene from Blue Crush where two surfer girls are just off shore on their boards trying to decide which massive, roaring wave to take. All you can really hear is their voices speaking in normal levels. Of course when we cut to action shots, THEN the waves ROAR and the surf POUNDS.

As for mixers removing unwanted sounds on location, they don't really work that way. At least my ($500 sign-video) mixer doesn't. All it does is boost signals. What gets recorded depends entirely on mic placement.

Hope that helps. Maybe a pro will come along and explain things a little better.

 

[Utopia]

I don't think I understand your question exactly.

The recordist on set absolutely HAS to have headphones and listen to the audio as it's being recorded. That is utterly unprofessional and can get a sound man fired if he didn't monitor his audio.

The equivalent to that would be a cameraman who didn't look in his viewfinder to see if the picture was in focus before the shot or recorded video without ever looking at it in the monitor and only later look at it in the editing room...

Regarding the mixboards, right now I think you should concentrate on recording audio to the best of your ability on the set.

Sure, there are tricks you can do in post production to fix "bad audio", but those tricks originated by being stupid and not capturing good audio to begin with.

The only mixboard you need to mix your first movie will be a copy of Pro Tools LE which you can get pretty cheaply. Don't try to dive in to the more complex hardware units there are out there. For you and where you are right now in your skillset, I recommend you buy Pro Tools and learn on that first before diving in with a ton of cash only to be swamped in a confusion of audio equipment you'll need to be helped out of.

Those are my 2 cents.

 

[gpforet]

There are, in essence, three controls on a field mixer, gain, level, and pan. That's it. Yes, there are low-cut (hi-pass) filters which are typically engaged for dialog and disengaged for fx and wild sounds. There are also level switches to configure the input and output level, and phantom power/T power switches for powering microphones, but as far as manipulating the sound, gain, level, and pan along with low-cut are it.

Once again, you are looking at getting years of education by asking a few broad questions which are answered ad-naseum throughout this forum. I'm hoping the next post you make is, "hey, here's something I shot, how can I make xyz better". Everything we've responded to is fodder until you apply it to an actual shot.

Grab a camera, roll some footage, post it. Ask specific questions about framing, lighting, camera movement etc.

Grab a boom, shotgun, and recorder and try to grab some dialog, post it. Ask specific questions about background sound, tibre, mic noise, room echo, etc.

 

[harmonica44]

I don't think I understand your question exactly.

The recordist on set absolutely HAS to have headphones and listen to the audio as it's being recorded. That is utterly unprofessional and can get a sound man fired if he didn't monitor his audio.

The equivalent to that would be a cameraman who didn't look in his viewfinder to see if the picture was in focus before the shot or recorded video without ever looking at it in the monitor and only later look at it in the editing room...

Regarding the mixboards, right now I think you should concentrate on recording audio to the best of your ability on the set.

Sure, there are tricks you can do in post production to fix "bad audio", but those tricks originated by being stupid and not capturing good audio to begin with.

The only mixboard you need to mix your first movie will be a copy of Pro Tools LE which you can get pretty cheaply. Don't try to dive in to the more complex hardware units there are out there. For you and where you are right now in your skillset, I recommend you buy Pro Tools and learn on that first before diving in with a ton of cash only to be swamped in a confusion of audio equipment you'll need to be helped out of.

Those are my 2 cents.

No I know that a soumdman has to monitor his audio. What I meant was since the soundman is busy monitoring, it, he has no time to work a mixer during filming does he? That's what I meant. And yes Pro Tools was recommended to me. Thanks that helps me want it more.

 

[Utopia]

No I know that a soumdman has to monitor his audio. What I meant was since the soundman is busy monitoring, it, he has no time to work a mixer during filming does he? That's what I meant.

You're welcome.

To answer your question, there are experienced mixers who mix "on the fly" during the shooting on set, but this is usually to a stereo track which is then used in video editing so they don't have to use the individual tracks. Most mixers I know basically set up that "mix" and still monitor the raw tracks as they are getting recorded because in the end, these are the more valuable tracks to keep an eye on.

The sound recordist must also record each channel (mic) separately for post editing.

You most definitely want the isolated raw tracks when you go to mix the film. The mix on the day is usually only for the video editors and directors to work with in editing the picture.

My advice, since you still haven't been out there at all, is to just take 1 mic and make it sound good before you bite off more than you can chew, so to speak.

 

[harmonica44]

There are, in essence, three controls on a field mixer, gain, level, and pan. That's it. Yes, there are low-cut (hi-pass) filters which are typically engaged for dialog and disengaged for fx and wild sounds. There are also level switches to configure the input and output level, and phantom power/T power switches for powering microphones, but as far as manipulating the sound, gain, level, and pan along with low-cut are it.

Once again, you are looking at getting years of education by asking a few broad questions which are answered ad-naseum throughout this forum. I'm hoping the next post you make is, "hey, here's something I shot, how can I make xyz better". Everything we've responded to is fodder until you apply it to an actual shot.

Grab a camera, roll some footage, post it. Ask specific questions about framing, lighting, camera movement etc.

Grab a boom, shotgun, and recorder and try to grab some dialog, post it. Ask specific questions about background sound, tibre, mic noise, room echo, etc.

Yeah okay, I am just wanting to keep myself doing it right, and not having to make mistakes. I know mistakes will be made but I want to be able to correct them, instead of going beyond the point of no return. Right now it's okay since I'm just practicing, but I wanna finish my short and do my feature, in a few months, so trying to work it all out.

Alright I do have one simple question that can be answered though, but I will post it on it's own. Thanks. So I'll just stick with the sound recorder and mics for now.

 

[harmonica44]

So I got the FR2-LE recorder now, anybody know any good mixers around the same price to go with it?

 

[harmonica44]

You're welcome.

To answer your question, there are experienced mixers who mix "on the fly" during the shooting on set, but this is usually to a stereo track which is then used in video editing so they don't have to use the individual tracks. Most mixers I know basically set up that "mix" and still monitor the raw tracks as they are getting recorded because in the end, these are the more valuable tracks to keep an eye on.

The sound recordist must also record each channel (mic) separately for post editing.

You most definitely want the isolated raw tracks when you go to mix the film. The mix on the day is usually only for the video editors and directors to work with in editing the picture.

My advice, since you still haven't been out there at all, is to just take 1 mic and make it sound good before you bite off more than you can chew, so to speak.

So basically let's say a soundman is recording a conversation between three people. Will he work the mixer and put everyone's voice on a separate audio channel, while recording them as they speak, since they the actors voices are coming from different directions? What if you are shooting a scene where three people are arguing and all speaking simultaneously?