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Question about shooting flat.

H

harmonica44

They say to shoot flat with DLSRs, cause that gives you more options in post, and cuts down on noise and what not. So their is saturation, contrast, sharpnes, and color tone. However I don't know how I am suppose to shoot flat with color tone.

Cause if you turn the color tone all the way down, the picture is more red. If you turn it all the way up, it's more green. So how is red, flat exactly?
 
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harmonica44 said:
They say to shoot flat with DLSRs, cause that gives you more options in post, and cuts down on noise and what not. So their is saturation, contrast, sharpnes, and color tone. However I don't know how I am suppose to shoot flat with color tone.

Cause if you turn the color tone all the way down, the picture is more red. If you turn it all the way up, it's more green. So how is red, flat exactly?
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I've never heard of people messing with the color tone.

I think you mean saturation.

Where did you hear to turn down color tone?
 
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ChimpPhobiaFilms said:
I've never heard of people messing with the color tone.

I think you mean saturation.

Where did you hear to turn down color tone?
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Well people say to shoot flat, and on my camera, their are four things you can turn down to flat. Saturation, Contrast, Sharpness, and Color Tone. I have the Canon T2i. So I assumed they meant all four of these things, or do they not all count?
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well people say to shoot flat, and on my camera, their are four things you can turn down to flat. Saturation, Contrast, Sharpness, and Color Tone. I have the Canon T2i. So I assumed they meant all four of these things, or do they not all count?
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Turn your camera onto neutral or cinestyle mode, then turn down contrast, saturation, and sharpness.
 
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Thanks good to know. I turned the color tone down like the rest, and that explains why a lot of some tests shots are coming out unusually red. I think just having it in the middle looks good. Since we are on the topic I have a color grading question.

Let's say I shot flat and am adding contrast in post. I like how the contrast looks in a sunny shot. I did test shots of myself. But then when I step into the shade, my face is too dark. But I can't have two different contrasts for two shots, cause it will look like the contrast has changed, and look unmatching right?

So when color grading a whole movie, do you just pick the darkest shot of a face, in the movie, add contrast to make it look good but not too dark, and then add the same amount of contrast to every other shot, so it matches to the audience?
 
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harmonica44 said:
So when color grading a whole movie, do you just pick the darkest shot of a face, in the movie, add contrast to make it look good but not too dark, and then add the same amount of contrast to every other shot, so it matches to the audience?
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You would probably power window the dark area of that one single shot, and bring the level up. Different shots are shot with slight tweaks, different scenes generally look very different to each other - so why would you want everything to look the same? Not to mention that because of the shot to shot and scene to scene differences, settings that look good in one shot or scene are not necessarily going to replicate to all shots and scenes to make everything look good.

There are many more powerful tools available to you than 'contrast' alone, when it comes to the grade.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I have a color grading question.

Let's say I shot flat and am adding contrast in post. I like how the contrast looks in a sunny shot. I did test shots of myself. But then when I step into the shade, my face is too dark. But I can't have two different contrasts for two shots, cause it will look like the contrast has changed, and look unmatching right?
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You have a few different options:
Don't add as much contrast.
Don't step into the shade.
Brighten the shot in post or turn up ISO, exposure, and aperture.
Light the scene.
If you are working on a bigger professional project, you should hire a colorist. Right now you're kind of in the beginner stage, so you should focus on writing, directing, and shooting.
If you continue to have problems with this, send me a PM and I'll try color grading/correcting the footage.

So when color grading a whole movie, do you just pick the darkest shot of a face, in the movie, add contrast to make it look good but not too dark, and then add the same amount of contrast to every other shot, so it matches to the audience?
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When you say "a whole movie", do you mean a professionally feature film? If so, they have access to a lot of lighting equipment and colorists.
 
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I just mean any movie. A short, a feature, the whole project whatever it is.

I know shots have different settings in movies. For example one shot, may have a shallower DOF than another, and one scene, might be shot under a different color temperature than another to create mood. However it seems that when it comes to movies, that contrast is usually similar if not the same throughout the whole movie. Saving Private Ryan for example, has a deep contrast, and I don't recall any scenes, where there was no contrast at all, compared to the rest of the movie. But I could be wrong of course. It just seems that a movie will maintain a similar level of contrast throughout and not change that much in that area.

I like shots that move from sun to shade though, depending on what I am doing. So I was practicing for if I want that intentionally. I thought I would play with color grading a bit though, so I know what kinds of looks I want before shooting, so a colorist can get the look I want in post.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I just mean any movie. A short, a feature, the whole project whatever it is. As far as features go, not every one has a whole team. I am acting in one right now, and helping out on set, and it only has one colorist for example.

I know shots have different settings in movies. For example one shot, may have a shallower DOF than another, and one scene, might be shot under a different color temperature than another to create mood. However it seems that when it comes to movies, that contrast is usually similar if not the same throughout the whole movie. Saving Private Ryan for example, has a deep contrast, and I don't recall any scenes, where there was no contrast at all, compared to the rest of the movie. But I could be wrong of course. It just seems that a movie will maintain a similar level of contrast throughout and not change that much in that area.

I like shots that move from sun to shade though, depending on what I am doing. So I was practicing for if I want that intentionally.
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Saving Private Ryan was a very big budget film. They had a massive lighting/camera department. I can imagine that they either shot the film with high-contrast, talked with colorists before production of the film, or didn't under light the dark areas in the film.

I'm a little bit confused by your question.
 
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Well my question is, is that how much range do you have for the contrast to be a different from shot to shot? That goes for saturation and sharpness as well.

For example if you scene that is color graded like Transformers (2007), then cut to the next scene and it is graded like Unforgiven (1992), a lot of viewers are going to find it too jarring, so I am wondering how much contrast, saturation or sharpness can be applied from shot to shot, before there is too much mismatching or it becomes too different?

I know it's all relative, but with contrast for example, is their any rules to play by?

Or more so in this case, is that how much range do you have for the contrast to be a different from shot to shot? For example if you have extreme contrast like SPR, than you switch too pretty much very little contrast, like The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, audiences might find such a switch too jarring between scenes.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well my question is, is that how much range do you have for the contrast to be a different from shot to shot? That goes for saturation and sharpness as well.
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It depends what your location is and the weather conditions. I couldn't know for sure unless I'm there.

For example if you scene that is color graded like Transformers (2007), then cut to the next scene and it is graded like Unforgiven (1992), a lot of viewers are going to find it too jarring,
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Both of those films were shot on different cameras, had different color tones, different styles, and different looks overall.

so I am wondering how much contrast, saturation or sharpness can be applied from shot to shot, before there is too much mismatching or it becomes too different?
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The reason people shoot with a flat profile is so that you add contrast, saturation, and sharpness later. I don't know about when shooting though, again, it depends on your location and weather conditions. How long is a piece of string?

I know it's all relative, but with contrast for example, is their any rules to play by?
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Don't push it too far ;)
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well my question is, is that how much range do you have for the contrast to be a different from shot to shot? For example if you have extreme contrast like SPR, than you switch too pretty much very little contrast, like The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, audiences might find such a switch too jarring between scenes.
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You just edited your post, so...

It depends on your location, the weather, the time of day, and the lenses you are shooting on.

Also, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is different SPR. Different location, weather, camera, and overall look.
 
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harmonica44 said:
For example if you scene that is color graded like Transformers (2007), then cut to the next scene and it is graded like Unforgiven (1992), a lot of viewers are going to find it too jarring, so I am wondering how much contrast, saturation or sharpness can be applied from shot to shot, before there is too much mismatching or it becomes too different?
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Not necessarily. It completely depends on the context. It could be completely plausible and not jarring at all, if the movie calls for it.

Not only that, but I'm not sure that you're thinking along the right lines. Unforgiven and Transformers look very different because they were shot on completely different stocks (which look completely different). As well, Transformers was taken through an entire DI process, and coloured by a colourist digitally, whereas Unforgiven was not - it was colour timed. They were also shot with different types of lighting. You make it seem as if the only difference in the look of the two films are a few settings on the computer, and that couldn't be further from the truth.
 
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Lots of good advice from ChimpPhobiaFilms, jax_rox etc.

harmonica44, just checking but you do Custom White Balance, yes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o5xif361x0

Personally, I follow Philip Bloom's set-up that I posted earlier. I then Custom White Balance for each scene based on the lighting set-up for that scene. Without custom white balancing some of my scenes would be off color, blue, yellow, whatever...
 
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