When recording the sound on gunfire, how do you make it sound good? The gunfire in El Mariachi for example, sounded bad. The gunfire in Heat, was the best sounding gunfire I've heard on film. So how do I make it sound like that? Thanks.
Question about recording gunshot effects.
- Thread starter harmonica44
- Start date
Here is how I record guns:
I get the gun to a location which will not add it's own noise to the gun. I find a spot which has a good echo and decay that sounds neutral (i.e. no noticeable delay which will sound weird in different spaces, etc.).
I get a real nice, $6,000 condenser microphone like the Neuman 191 stereo mic and place that within inches of the gun's muzzle.
I have a pair of SM57s I set up about 5 feet away from the gun in an ORTF configuration.
I have a stereo pair of AKG 421s I place about 10 feet away from the mic set in an ORTF configuration.
I have a binaural mic placed about 15 feet away from the gun.
I set up about 50 feet away from the gun a pair of Schoeps MK5 mics which are set up in either XY or ORTF.
Sometimes we bring along the surround mic, but not always.
This gets enough coverage and enough options to get a gun sounding good.
The key to good gun sound and recording is having all of the perspectives you can mix and match with, and also capturing the decay of the gun (echoes) which is where most of the gun's body is in. Hence, the mics placed further away.
The FX recordist for Inception used a similar technique and got great sounding guns. So did the guns of The Town. As well as the guns for all of the Medal of Honor video games. But, the person I learned this from used this on the movie Transformers 1, 2 and 3. Those are the best I've heard.
I get the gun to a location which will not add it's own noise to the gun. I find a spot which has a good echo and decay that sounds neutral (i.e. no noticeable delay which will sound weird in different spaces, etc.).
I get a real nice, $6,000 condenser microphone like the Neuman 191 stereo mic and place that within inches of the gun's muzzle.
I have a pair of SM57s I set up about 5 feet away from the gun in an ORTF configuration.
I have a stereo pair of AKG 421s I place about 10 feet away from the mic set in an ORTF configuration.
I have a binaural mic placed about 15 feet away from the gun.
I set up about 50 feet away from the gun a pair of Schoeps MK5 mics which are set up in either XY or ORTF.
Sometimes we bring along the surround mic, but not always.
This gets enough coverage and enough options to get a gun sounding good.
The key to good gun sound and recording is having all of the perspectives you can mix and match with, and also capturing the decay of the gun (echoes) which is where most of the gun's body is in. Hence, the mics placed further away.
The FX recordist for Inception used a similar technique and got great sounding guns. So did the guns of The Town. As well as the guns for all of the Medal of Honor video games. But, the person I learned this from used this on the movie Transformers 1, 2 and 3. Those are the best I've heard.
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From the master, Charles Maynes:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1746/weapons_sound_effects_recording_.php
The audio set-ups in the following vids run from $10,000 (WW session) to about $75,000+ (MoH sessions) not to mention the sound recordists years of experience, the cost of hiring the armorer, the insurance and thousands of rounds of ammo. In a few shots you will notice the virtual forest of mics that ROC mentioned.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1746/weapons_sound_effects_recording_.php
The audio set-ups in the following vids run from $10,000 (WW session) to about $75,000+ (MoH sessions) not to mention the sound recordists years of experience, the cost of hiring the armorer, the insurance and thousands of rounds of ammo. In a few shots you will notice the virtual forest of mics that ROC mentioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tfz4cjza8A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUb0w_YpLfI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGIvLLOJ0fs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUb0w_YpLfI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGIvLLOJ0fs
Well the mics I got were only a few hundred dollars but I will do record with them how you said, and hope for the best I guess. So I'm suppose to record the gunshot with the mic placed far away, but shouldn't I record only far away with scenes where the guns are far away from the camera? Then record the sound with the mic close to the gun, in scenes where the guns are close up?
If you take one mic and place it close and another back about 20 feet you'll have both perspectives to choose from.
The thing about guns is that most of the sound is in how it echoes and not how it sounds up close. Try shooting a gun in an anechoic chamber and it would sound like a cap gun. The echo is the key to great sounding guns. And I have that information on possibly the highest authority on gun recordists. I'm sure Alcove would agree.
The thing about guns is that most of the sound is in how it echoes and not how it sounds up close. Try shooting a gun in an anechoic chamber and it would sound like a cap gun. The echo is the key to great sounding guns. And I have that information on possibly the highest authority on gun recordists. I'm sure Alcove would agree.
Yeah. I probably won't need to fire off thousands of rounds of ammo though like Alcove suggested, will I? It would probably be best to fire off a few, then use the same recordings over and over for the shots that fit them best.
Roc, I seriously doubt that we should encourage irresponsible behavior. A qualified armorer and insurance should always be used, and I doubt that Harmonica will hire one or acquire the other. Recording weapons well is HARD as well as risky, and proper gear plays a very important part of capturing good gunshots as does a developed skill set. Harmonica has neither the gear nor the expertise. There are plenty of good weapons libraries out there, Harmonica; use them.
There are terrabytes of sound FX available on a buy-out basis; pay for it once and use it forever.
http://www.sound-ideas.com/sfxmenu-guns.html
You can also buy by-the-sound from Sound Dogs and Sonomic.
Harmonica, you have a lot to learn; start with these books:
Sound Design: The Expressive Power of Music, Voice and Sound Effects in Cinema - David Sonnenschein
The Practical Art of Motion Picture Sound, Third Edition - David Lewis Yewdall
Dialogue Editing for Motion Pictures: A Guide to the Invisible Art - John Purcell
The Sound Effects Bible: How to Create and Record Hollywood Style Sound Effects - Ric Viers
The Foley Grail: The Art of Performing Sound - Vanessa Theme Ament
http://www.sound-ideas.com/sfxmenu-guns.html
You can also buy by-the-sound from Sound Dogs and Sonomic.
Harmonica, you have a lot to learn; start with these books:
Sound Design: The Expressive Power of Music, Voice and Sound Effects in Cinema - David Sonnenschein
The Practical Art of Motion Picture Sound, Third Edition - David Lewis Yewdall
Dialogue Editing for Motion Pictures: A Guide to the Invisible Art - John Purcell
The Sound Effects Bible: How to Create and Record Hollywood Style Sound Effects - Ric Viers
The Foley Grail: The Art of Performing Sound - Vanessa Theme Ament
Okay thanks. Do those books tell me how many khz I will need to get good sound effects? Or does that matter? I keep getting stumped on how many khz is necessary for movie quality sound. I mean I know it's the person using the equipment and not the equipment itself but there are limitations. My DP told me I to get a camera that is at least as good as 1080p, no less, cause that's what is required for pro movie standards. So is there a certain number of khz, no less, that I need?
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harmonica, the amount of money it would take to drive somewhere quiet in the middle of the desert, rent the equipment, rent the weapons specialists, etc. etc. etc., unless you had the skill of recording down cold, the money you would spend would buy you a nice SFX library.
True, but a lot of times, in movies, you can tell if the sound effects are from a library or not. It's a matter of finding a good one for sure, but even some multi-million dollar movies somehow manage to find bad ones.
Okay, but do you have the $25,000 to record the gunshots that you want?
Oh, and please list the films that used gunshots from a library?
Oh, and please list the films that used gunshots from a library?
Well I don't know which movies have used library stuff, but it seems a lot have since some movies have action sound effects that sound like they were taken out of much older movies, with not as good of sound.
Why would recording gunshots cost $25, 000 though? I have access to a $600 dollar mic and a $500 dollar recorder, can't I just use those and get some guns, and record them in certain atmospheres to get certain sounds?
Why would recording gunshots cost $25, 000 though? I have access to a $600 dollar mic and a $500 dollar recorder, can't I just use those and get some guns, and record them in certain atmospheres to get certain sounds?
It's because I like to do things safely and legally. An armorer and insurance are expensive, not to mention renting the entire firing range for a few days (no competing gunfire), renting the weapons and paying for a few thousand rounds of ammo. And, if I'm going to spend the money on the armorer and the insurance I'm going to rent a lot of really nice gear plus hire a few audio assistants. Go back and read the article and watch the videos I recommended previously, you can see and hear where the money goes. Considering your level of experience with audio I doubt that you would get any useable weapons sounds.
BTW, if the gunfire sounds artificial it does not necessarily mean that it was a sound library; it may have been badly edited (poor choices) or badly mixed. A well chosen sound properly mixed will be convincing. It's the job of the sound editors and sound mixers to create a convincing sonic soundscape that does not pull the audience out of the film.
BTW, if the gunfire sounds artificial it does not necessarily mean that it was a sound library; it may have been badly edited (poor choices) or badly mixed. A well chosen sound properly mixed will be convincing. It's the job of the sound editors and sound mixers to create a convincing sonic soundscape that does not pull the audience out of the film.
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Thanks. I checked out the videos. I won't need thousands of rounds, though, just a few. Plus I can use the same sounds over and over for the same guns. I only have one gunfight in my script, and all the guns are police weapons, and civilian weapons. So people I know could own them that I could get access to. I could ask the police if I could record the gunshots from their firing range, for the police shootings in my script, if they would be okay with that.
Harmonica: I don't wish to be rude, but it might be nice if after asking so many questions you actually took their advice, rather than just saying "thanks, but I'll do it my way". Alcove Audio is a seasoned professional and he knows what he's talking about - and like the rest of us, I'm sure he'd much rather see you produce some little short films to try these skills out than see you heading towards falling flat on your arse with $75k and a feature length script.
You're right. I will look into it. Thanks guys. And thanks Alcove for all your help.
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