Question about maintaining skin tones.

[harmonica44]

I'm starting to notice this. An actor for example, is in a scene with tungsten lights, and the white balance is set to tungsten, to give it a bit of the yellow look. Then you want to do an office scene for example, and you want white fluorescent lights, and want them white, so you set the white balance to white fluorescent. Now since it's a different white balance, the actor's skin tones will be at a different saturation level from scene A compared to scene B. Will this be a problem in consistency of the look of the movie? Especially if it's in the same sequence, and the actor walks from a room with one light to a room with the other?

I could gel lights but in some locations I am forced to leave their natural lights on, such as street lights. Or will audiences find the skin tone change too distracting?

 

[Cracker Funk]

You can make any creative choice you want. Eat some shrooms and watch Natural Born Killers, then talk about coloring.

If you set your white-balance to get a yellow look, then you're not really white-balancing. That's a creative choice you can make, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you want consistency (which is one reason why you white-balance), it's best to use manual white-balance.

 

[rayw]

An actor for example, is in a scene with tungsten lights, and the white balance is set to tungsten, to give it a bit of the yellow look.

That don't look right.
I bet you meant to say "to remove" a bit of the yellow look, right?


And you should just accept that the shots are still going to demand SOME manual, subjective color correction.

WB and AWB can only go so far.

 

[harmonica44]

Well I mean like how in some movies they make the lights yellow as a stylistic choice such as Drive or Skyfall. But then when the fluorescent scenes come in, they opt for a white or green-ish fluorescent look. They might use gels but on a budget in some areas where we can't get gel on the lights, is color balancing in camera, and thus changing the skin tones from scene to scene, professional?

 

[rayw]

... is color balancing in camera, and thus changing the skin tones from scene to scene, professional?

As possible.
GIGO.

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. Cause I don't want people saying why is the actors faces normal skin color in one scene, and all pale white in another.

 

[rayw]

Yeah, well... There's no telling what people are gonna complain about.

Did you ever figure out a work around solution to that pink lip color correction issue in the other project?
Hope that same issue doesn't plague you on this project.

 

[Sweetie]

Do you light with different types of lights on? Eg Tung, HMI, Fluro or even direct sunlight at the same time?

Do you white balance before or after you turn your lights on?

Do you adjust your lights after your WB?

 

[harmonica44]

Sometimes I light with different types of light depending. I don't mind mixing tungsten with fluor because it gives the yellow and white-green look, like some movies like Skyfall, which I kind of like. But this only works if one of the lights is in the background and separate cause mixing directly gives yucky colors.

I either color balance to one light only after it's been switched on, or I will use a color balance from a list of pre-saved color balances on a memory card I have.

 

[Scorer]

I don't think it will be too distracting if the environment is different, because then lighting differences are acceptable. I think it would only be a big issue if there was no environmental change and your light suddenly changed.

However, I personally don't really use WB presets, I think it would serve you well to pick up a set of cards.

 

[Sweetie]

Sometimes I light with different types of light depending. I don't mind mixing tungsten with fluor because it gives the yellow and white-green look, like some movies like Skyfall, which I kind of like. But this only works if one of the lights is in the background and separate cause mixing directly gives yucky colors.

I either color balance to one light only after it's been switched on, or I will use a color balance from a list of pre-saved color balances on a memory card I have.

It sounds like you're trying to grade in camera without knowing the effects it will have in the long run. This is probably where a lot of your issues are coming from. Start with the basics and go from there. Stick with one type of light at a time.

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. I have been sticking with one light at a time. I want to shoot in a parking garage for example, but all the lights are orange. I want them white. But if I white balance them to white, the actor's skin goes pretty pale. I don't think we'd be allowed to gel all the lights. One actor suggested using make up to make the actor's skin appear normal. Then when they run from outside, which is white balanced to sunlight, it won't look so jarring for when they go pale, when the shot switches to inside the garage. Is make up the way to go do you think?

 

[Sweetie]

Is make up the way to go do you think?

No. Just no.

Manual white balance instead of relying on a setting in case your lights are a slightly different color.

 

[rayw]

I want to shoot in a parking garage for example, but all the lights are orange. I want them white. But if I white balance them to white, the actor's skin goes pretty pale.

Do you have ND filters?
Might be test time!

I'm going to take a wild guess that the parking garage shots are at night, so even though the lights are on at night they're powerful enough to "bleach out" the actor's skin tone.
I'm wondering if a ND filter (counter-intuitive at night, I understand) would knock down some of that overpowering light and allow the manual WB to meter at a lower level so that some skin tone can get in there.
Worth a test try.

 

[harmonica44]

I can try that. It's not the lights are bleaching out the actor's skin, it's that the white balancing of the lights are. The lights are orange, and under orange kelvin temperature, the actor's skin looks fine. But balance the orange lights to white, and the actor's are pale. So it's the color that is flushing out the skin tones, not the brightness. Cause under orange color balance the skin looks fine, like in this example:

http://youtu.be/iqAKqOEKzCA

I want the blue light one for my movie, but not the pale skin tones, as it will not match the skin tones, as it will not match the skin tones from outdoors, before the actor's enter the parking garage. During outdoors though, it's not night, but day, so I will be shooting under a more daylight balance.

I worry that it may be too dark in a parking garage with an ND filter slapped on though, cause it's already dark in their and we have to open up to f2 or around there.

 

[2001 Productions]

The lights in the parking structure likely use sodium vapor lamps, which have a very low color temperature. This means they output a very warm light. In order to try and balance to white, your camera has to suck nearly all of the red out of the image. Since human skin tones are reddish, this is why the actor turns pale.

You cannot correct this issue by white balancing. You either need to live with the warm look or shut down/cover the sodium vapor lights and re-light using your own instruments.

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks I'll see if I can gel the lights but if they won't let me, I am not happy with the warm look at all though. It looks too home video-ish and not cinematic enough. I am just trying to not have home video-ish looks if that's possible.

 

[chilipie]

Okay thanks I'll see if I can gel the lights but if they won't let me, I am not happy with the warm look at all though. It looks too home video-ish and not cinematic enough. I am just trying to not have home video-ish looks if that's possible.

We've been over this before…

What you are trying to do may be impossible - low-pressure sodium lamps are effectively monochromatic sources (see graph).

You cannot make light from a source like this appear white, whether with gels, filters or white balance - the wavelengths simply aren't there.

Either use lights of your own (a small LED panel may well be sufficient to light close-ups) or just accept that the scene is going to have an orange tint. You're trying to make a film on a tight budget with relatively little experience; there are bound to be compromises.

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. An actor I am working with says to just get a make up artist to make their skin look natural under the white balance. But if that won't work either I will just live with it or see about gelling them.

 

[chilipie]

Okay thanks. An actor I am working with says to just get a make up artist to make their skin look natural under the white balance.

See my previous post - you can't reflect wavelengths that aren't there.

But if that won't work either I will just live with it or see about gelling them.

And again, gelling the lights won't work. Either add lights of your own (tungsten, fluorescent, HMI, LED… whatever you can get hold of) or make the orange tint part of the film.