Question about color grading in Premiere Pro.

[harmonica44]

When I use 'color balance', or 'RGB curves', it gives the option of red, green, and blue. In my footage, I sometimes feel that the camera tends to give too much of a reddish image. So in order to grade it to look better, I pull down the reds in Premiere. It looks better, but there is still a bit of yellow, especially under halogen and tungsten lit shots. So in order to fix that I can add blue. Even though the blue gets rid of the yellow, the faces become slightly magenta, but just slightly.

Now it seems to me instead of pulling the reds way down, and then adding blue, in order to get rid of red and yellow, you should just be able to take out yellow. But RGB curves and color balance, only allow you to deal with red, green and blue. In Photostop, when you play with color balance, they allow you the options of dealing with cyan, magenta, and yellow. But they don't have those colors in Premiere, so if an image has too much yellow in for your taste, you cannot remove it. You have to add another color, blue, in order to get rid of it, but then you got a little magenta.

Is this how it goes with color grading in Premiere Pro, or with video in general, or is their a reason why they only offer three colors to play with, as oppose to Photoshop?

 

[Sweetie]

First, on a side topic, I have to ask why you can come across as somewhat intelligent on other peoples threads, but on your own thread your IQ seems to drop to a sub-human level?

RGB curves are for you to adjust Red, Blue and Green through curves. I would have expected that it'd give this away in its name being RGB, standing for Red, Green, Blue, as you also stated. I assume your software is similar as it also allows you to gang all colors and adjust luma.

You need to use the correct tool for the task. If you can gang two colors together in your software, you'd be able to do a very basic yellow (you understand basic color theory right?), however it's unlikely going to be the correct shade of yellow that you need to adjust for.

Why can't you do it in this tool? It's not made for the task you're trying to use it. While it can be used for this in specific situations, this is a poor tool to use for this purpose.

The answer is simple. Use the color wheels, or whatever the iteration of this tool is within your version of pp.

Is this how it goes with color grading in Premiere Pro, or with video in general, or is their a reason why they only offer three colors to play with, as oppose to Photoshop?

cyan, magenta, and yellow. But they don't have those colors in Premiere

Oh really? You think? Ok guys, time to pack it in. H44 tells us there's only 3 colors in PP.

I once again suggest that you learn grading in a real grading software and then AFTER you've learned and can do it in the other software, then attempt to see if you can do the same job within PP. It's possible, but it doesn't mean YOU can do it or even should do it.

One last question, how do you know it's a yellow cast instead of your monitor being uncalibrated or room light source?

 

[harmonica44]

I tested out the footage on other monitors to compare, and the yellow cast is still there. I also looked at it with the lights off, to avoid such casting.

I tried the three color wheels before, but got the same thing. You can only steer the color away from yellow, but cannot remove the yellow. The skin comes out even more pink/magenta with the wheels, and the wheels looks worse than curves, in my opinion. I will play around with some more, but so far you cannot take out yellow, and am forced to add in too much blue to create magenta skin it seems.

 

[Daniel_S]

can you post a screeencap?

 

[Will Vincent]

Well... where to begin...

If you are improperly white balanced, you're footage shot under tungsten lighting will look yellow until/unless you correct that white balance issue.

Whatever tool you use for color grading yes, it only allows moving things around the color wheel, that's how it works. A little push here, a little pull there -- it's all a balancing act to get the best compromise and find what works. But you, once again are veering off into all these other areas when you've yet to pick one thing to focus on and become proficient at.

I'm really starting to get the feeling that filmmaking just isn't for you.

 

[harmonica44]

I think I just need more practice. I figured out what the problem is I think. I white balanced to the halogen lights, which I used, which are 3200 degrees kelvin. But there are shots of lamps, which are the points of origin of the lights in the scene, and lamps have light bulbs that are more around 2800 degrees kelvin. So the lamps are coming out yellow in the background, which I don't like, and my halogen lights are coming out white on the actors.

Next time I will know to replace the lamp bulbs with 3200 bulbs, so they will match.

 

[Sweetie]

I tested out the footage on other monitors to compare, and the yellow cast is still there. I also looked at it with the lights off, to avoid such casting.

I tried the three color wheels before, but got the same thing. You can only steer the color away from yellow, but cannot remove the yellow.

You're doing it wrong. If you're moving it away from the yellow that you need to remove and it's not removing it, then what you're doing is incorrect. You're either identifying the wrong color (which can happen when you're using uncalibrated equipment and not using scopes - which I doubt) or you're once again using the tool the wrong way.

The skin comes out even more pink/magenta with the wheels

Why are you even on that axis?

and the wheels looks worse than curves, in my opinion. I will play around with some more, but so far you cannot take out yellow, and am forced to add in too much blue to create magenta skin it seems.

WTF are you doing? Really? Seriously? Do you operate a camera the same way? Blindly push buttons and aim the camera in random directions and hope for the best and then complain that you need to fix the make up and hair of the actors in post?

H44, just to see if you understand the basics of color, can you explain to me how you are getting magenta if you are adding blue to remove yellow?

I'm really starting to get the feeling that filmmaking just isn't for you.

Starting?

replace the lamp bulbs with 3200 bulbs, so they will match.

Mixing light sources is never smart.

Pop up a screen shot so we can take a look at what you're really dealing with. That way, we can work out the real problem instead of trusting your interpretation.

 

[Will Vincent]

Starting?

Maybe not.

 

[WhiteOpus]

We will never see a screenshot.

 

[Daniel_S]

The world may never know, Opus. The world may never know...

 

[Sweetie]

5 more pages of useless crap, the screenshot may turn up.

Until then, I'll treat everything h44 says as I would vaporware.

 

[harmonica44]

Sorry, I haven't had as much time to get stills lately, cause I have been using Premiere Pro, to render, for the past few days. I will get some still on here soon but here's one still so far:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Xsh5O2ZFssYzNWLTJiNTFuRk0/view?usp=sharing

As you can sees the original here, is a bit on the yellow side originally. I white balanced, but sometimes even with tungsten light, there are still circumstances where the T2i comes out yellow, or I white balanced wrong. I can't remove the yellow in Premiere Pro, unlike photoshop. Premiere Pro, only allows me to add a color, so I added blue to get rid of it. But as a result the light now looks blue-ish, instead of white, and looks cold, instead of warm. The skin looks okay there, but there are other scenes where it looks too pink, which I will post later, when I can.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Xsh5O2ZFssU1E4b3pPemQ3aDg/view?usp=sharing

Is their any way to get rid of yellow without having to add blue and make it more cold, or is that what you have to do? Unless of course that look is okay, and it does not look overgraded.

 

[Sweetie]

I haven't had as much time to get stills lately

If it's not important to you, then we can move on to more important things.

The problem with what you've done is due to your lack of understanding, you've introduced blue into your blacks. Unless that's a particular look you're going for (very rare) it just doesn't work well.

Before:

Here I simply took your after photo, removed a little blue in the blacks and lowered the lift (blacks).
After:

See the subtle change?

If you prefer a warmer feel to the scene, what you should do is increase the color contrast with the green (not exactly a proper color contrast but you work with what you have)

By ignoring your narrow focus on worrying about the yellow, you are able to get a warmer look by shifting the mids and highlights towards orange, lowering the lift (blacks). I think I may even have lowered the highlights. Before the shift, isolating the curtain and pushing it towards a more solid green than the baby puke green. (isolation done before pushing the warmer look). If yellow is still a problem, simply move towards yellow before the warmer push.

While neither of these are great examples of grading, you'll start to understand, you'll get more if you post your pictures of your problems you're having. Both before and after and explain the feel you're trying to accomplish rather than the problem you're having, which due to your inability to understand correction in the first place, you're unable to describe the actual problem. The answers will come faster. Now you can look at adjustments.

You could even take the opportunity to reframe the image if the rest of the shot allowed:

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. It's important to me, I just wasn't able to do it the over the holidays, cause of other filmmaking commitments. However, this week, I want to work on it. I like the second picture of the four. As far as the puke green curtain goes, I don't think I even noticed that. I was going by the yellow skin tones mostly. I was told before to use the three color wheels to get away from yellow, but doing that seems to add blue to my blacks since I have to steer the wheel towards blue, to get rid of the yellow. Is there a better way to do this?

 

[Sweetie]

Well that's a simple alteration to do. You already have most of it Keep the picture cold and adjust your contrast. Like you said before, "Less Contrast"... which actually means more contrast to everyone else.

 

[harmonica44]

Oh okay. I already have the contrast at 2& though, which isn't much. I can't add more contrast though, cause when the actress walks out of the room, she goes into the dark hallway, and more contrast is too much, and it's too black. I already tested that before though. I have the contrast over zero, at 2% right now. Is it possible to get a non-yellow look, with no blue in the blacks, and not have a high contrast, or do I need that high contrast, if that's what I am understanding correctly?

 

[Sweetie]

I already have the contrast at 2& though

2& what? What exactly are you doing? Did you find another button on your computer, crossed your fingers and hope it's the right one to press? Just please tell me it's not one of those attempt to "one button fixed everything" again? Remember, they don't really work. You got the instructions already on what you need to do to get the wider contrast. What happened when you followed those instructions?

If you're looking for the magic button, press the power button and walk away. It's about as close as it gets.

I can't add more contrast though, cause when the actress walks out of the room, she goes into the dark hallway, and more contrast is too much, and it's too black.

You need to make the correct adjustments at the right time. Simply use keyframes if you need different adjustment at different times. Anyone with half a clue knows this. What makes you think an adjustment for one situation will work in every other situation?

Is it possible to get a non-yellow look, with no blue in the blacks, and not have a high contrast

Of course. It's quite a simple task to do too. You simply skip the part where you crush the shadows and just make the adjustment to turn the shadows from blue tint to black. It's really that simple. Pay attention to your scopes so you know what you need to adjust. I don't know why you're trying to make it any more complicated than it needs to be. The only conclusion is you just don't understand what you need to do, which is fine if you stop trying to hide it.

do I need that high contrast

Of course not. You can have a flatter picture. It's your choice. Why do you think it not be the case? It's just a matter of adjusting your controls to get the look you want. Though, I think you really need learn the basics of color grading before trying to push into more advanced topics before you ask a question like that.

The difference between the first (your grade) and second picture in my previous post is a contrast adjustment of less than 5%. It can be pushed further or retracted depending on what you want to accomplish, though, you did say you liked the look. You could bring down the highlights to decrease the contrast if you like the blacks and want a less contrasty picture, though everything leads me to believe you're wanting one thing and describing another once again through ignorance.

if that's what I am understanding correctly?

I suspect the answer is a distinct no.

Here are two versions:

The second has a lower contrast. Can you see the difference? It's a bigger difference (about 25%) than we've seen in any other picture in this thread though visually it seems like a much smaller adjustment than the following (About a 5% contrast difference):

Not all contrast is created equal. That's the problem with not understanding the tools you're using. If you A). Don't understand what you need to do to a picture to get the result you're after and B). Don't understand the basic tools that are available to you. How on earth do you expect to end up with a professional result that is anything short of a Christmas miracle?

Your focus on your misunderstanding of what you're calling a contrast is frustrating at best. You hear the familar word contrast and peg in on it without knowing its context. When linear contrast adjustments are your only focus, which seems to be your case, you're never going to do a good job.

The question you need to answer: When you adjust contrast, are you adjusting the highlights, mids or shadows?

 

[WalterB]

..............

The question you need to answer: When you adjust contrast, are you adjusting the highlights, mids or shadows?

My guess is he's still using the contrast effect and set the slider to 2...

@H44:

Only RGB in PPro?
You try to grade without understanding colors.

Do you think you can't do anything with Cyan, Magenta en Yellow in curves?
Pull down the mids of the Red curve really far. What do you see?
And what when you do that with Green? And Blue?

Did you calibrate your monitor by now with a calibation tool?
You can't trust your eyes... At least I can't trust YOUR eyes. AFAIK you could be color blind.

 

[Sweetie]

My guess is he's still using the contrast effect and set the slider to 2...

Oh boy.... /popcorn

AFAIK you could be color blind.

It's hard to tell. I'm sure he has his eyes closed when making decisions related to filming. Either that or sticking up where the sun don't shine.

 

[harmonica44]

Sorry when I typed 2& it was a typo. I meant the contrast slider is at 2. That's what I added. So mostly a shadow adjustment there. I didn't adjust the contrast highlights, or mids, cause I was already satisfied with them. I know adjusting the slider to 2 does not fit for all situations, I was just talking about that particular shot.

When the woman walks out of the room and camera pulls back, the contrast has to stay the same in the shot, or you will see the adjustment being made, is what I meant.

I don't mean to make things more complicated than they need to be. I am just trying to understand how to get rid of the yellow without another color spilling into the blacks. I will keep reading what was told of me here, and keep applying it, and will figure it out.

You say that blue in the blacks, is a rare look. Do you mean rare good, or rare bad?

What else can I do to improve the look, compared to what I have done so far? Thanks.