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Plugging a ZOOM H4N into sound desk

Hi guys,

I have been asked to film a live set by a covers band who want to use the footage for a DVD, I have a Zoom H4N and when shooting weddings I plug it in to the sound desk via a XLR lead to capture the speeches etc and it works fine.

I am contemplating doing the same for the live band as every instrument is mic'ed up to the sound desk, so hopefully I would get nice clean audio... However I just want to check before I do this that its ok? Obviously with the speeches its pretty simple as its one channel and relatively low volume but with the band it will be multiple channels on the sound desk and fairly loud, just don't want it damaging my ZOOM...

Has anyone had experience with this?
 
Hi guys,

I have been asked to film a live set by a covers band who want to use the footage for a DVD, I have a Zoom H4N and when shooting weddings I plug it in to the sound desk via a XLR lead to capture the speeches etc and it works fine.

I am contemplating doing the same for the live band as every instrument is mic'ed up to the sound desk, so hopefully I would get nice clean audio... However I just want to check before I do this that its ok? Obviously with the speeches its pretty simple as its one channel and relatively low volume but with the band it will be multiple channels on the sound desk and fairly loud, just don't want it damaging my ZOOM...

Has anyone had experience with this?

I had an experience and it was hell. I did this with a Tascam DR100 and it wasn't great but this also depends on the quality levels you are comfortable with.

There are 4 elements:

1. The singer - make sure they know what they are doing and do not sound flat, lifeless, have mic control etc... Otherwise, you will end up with flat and lifeless vocals.
2. Mics. The mics and pickups all need to be placed correctly for audio recording. I hope you know how to mic up a drumkit etc... because if you arrive and everything is already 100% micced up correctly, this will be a miracle. However, miracles happen...
3. Levels. The levels adjusted appropriately. If not, you will wonder why the recording sounds flat and lifeless while the performance was lively.
4. Ensure the volume levels are set correctly for each track and there is no clipping when you are recording to the H4N. Clipping will destroy the sound and it will be terrible. You can kinda get away with it for dialogue but for music - just don't go there.

You will also need to adjust it in post and I hope you are a dab hand at this.

How do I know this? Experience. It's a b!tch...
 
If I understand the situation you are going to plug the H4n into the bands mixing console to act as the audio recorder during a live performance.

First, you will probably need a signal attenuator/pad, probably -40dB; the signal from an FOH (Front Of House) mixing console is HOT. It is possible to blow out the preamps of the H4n entirely if the signal is hot enough. I would recommend renting something like a DAT or the Sound Devices 702 which are more appropriate to the situation.

Second, the mix from the console is for what will be heard coming out of the speakers, NOT what makes for an optimum recording. Depending upon the size of the venue - say a small or medium sized club - the mix will most probably be vocals and drums, and maybe some bass; if there is a keyboard player that may also be very prominent in the mix, depending upon his/her stage volume. Guitarists especially tend to play at very high volumes, so may not be miced at all, or just "ghosted" into the mix. Also keep in mind that the mix is EQed to sound good in the room in which the performance is being given, so may sound very weird when recorded; it can be re-EQed to some degree, but will not have anything approaching "studio" quality. What is really needed is a complete separate mix to be recorded.

For live albums the major recording acts use a remote recording facility and record each instrument separately, just as they would in the studio, and remix the tracks after the performance.

Just for fun... All this is crammed into a truck:

studio.jpg


Probably a few $100k worth of gear.

Your best option is to hope that there is an empty auxiliary send on the mixing console and that a separate mix can be sent to your H4n. It will take quite a bit of experimentation to get a decent mix from there. Far from optimum, but hopefully a tiny bit better than a direct feed of off the FOH mixing console.

"Back in the day" I did have some luck recording the FOH mix and a pair of mics very close the FOH mixing console (four [4] audio tracks). I would later re-EQ and mix/blend the tracks together. It was decent enough for demos to get gigs, but not for a live performance DVD.

I'm not trying to piss on your charcoal, but you should be aware of the enormous challenges facing you. You or the band should, at the least, record the audio of several gigs so you have an idea of what you are getting yourself into.
 
Hi guys,

Thanks for the feedback.... basically the band have their own sound engineer who will be setting all the levels and all amps and drum kit will be mic'ed up.

The band have a full practice on sunday where I will be going down and trying out this option... I just like you say don't want to blow my H4N, that is what I am most concerned about.

The only real other option is just to have the Zoom H4N in the room somewhere for the show? Any ideas where would be best to place it? If this is the only option?
 
The band have a full practice on sunday where I will be going down and trying out this option... I just like you say don't want to blow my H4N, that is what I am most concerned about...
The only real other option is just to have the Zoom H4N in the room somewhere for the show? Any ideas where would be best to place it? If this is the only option?

If you turn the Zoom to it's lowest input gain setting, turn the desk's aux master output level all the way to minus infinity (effectively no output level), then plug the desk's aux output into your zoom's inputs and very slowly increase the desk's aux master output level until you get a reasonable input level on your zoom.

As Alcove said, your problem is going to be getting a usable mix. Even with individual level control for each channel using a dedicated aux buss on the desk, it's still most likely to sound bad! There will be better and worse places to place your zoom in the auditorium if you are considering recording direct to the zoom rather than through the desk, but there is no way to know where the best places are without being there and actually hearing the acoustics. The best position could be at the mixing position but that depends on where the mixing position is! However, you're even less likely to get a usable mix by recording direct to your zoom rather than through the desk.

G
 
Thanks for the feedback.... basically the band have their own sound engineer who will be setting all the levels and all amps and drum kit will be mic'ed up.

I don't mean to be a hard case, but did you thoroughly read my post?

... the mix from the console is for what will be heard coming out of the speakers, NOT what makes for an optimum recording........

The band have a full practice on sunday where I will be going down and trying out this option... I just like you say don't want to blow my H4N, that is what I am most concerned about.

I would suggest you get the attenuator pads just to play it safe.

The only real other option is just to have the Zoom H4N in the room somewhere for the show?

Give it a shot, but I think you and the band will be disappointed.

Any ideas where would be best to place it? If this is the only option?

Optimum spot? Probably near the FOH console.

Keep in mind that every room/venue will be entirely different, so even if it sounds okay in the rehearsal room it may sound like crap in the club.


Good Luck!!!!!!
 
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