Now I'm torn...

The global shutter is far superior to that extra stop of dynamic range.

So.. blackmagic started shipping units, but doesn't have enough for all the preorders.. so preorders will be filled first, in the order received, then new backorders filled. Just got my name on that list with B&H. It'll probably be a few months before I see it, but I'm in the queue!
 
jax_rox said:
Unless you want better dynamic range ;)
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Always a trade off, especially at this price range. What one plans to shoot, and personal taste, answer this question. For me, the significant improvement in the rendering of motion outweighs the minor difference in range between the BMD cams. We're not talking Alexa grade rolling shutter here, and the next viable option (in the US) with a global shutter is a significant price jump - the Sony f55. I specify "in the US" because in the EU or Down Under it might be easier to lay hands on an ikonoskop, which is a great camera but has its own trade offs as well. Though it does bypass rolling shutter (by virtue of being CCD) for less $ than an f55, so I'd be called on it if I didn't include it. ;)
 
Tempting, tempting...

Playing devil's advocate, I would ask yourself: is this new gear good enough for you to justify the purchase? In 1-3 years times, something better will be here, will you be kicking yourself then? What return do you expect to get on this new gear? If you're a pro and making money from your gear then it is a lot easier to justify. If you're making no money from it, it may be best to stick with your present gear (not sure what that is) for another year or 2-3...
.
 
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Those are certainly good questions Paul.. and I did actually take many of those concerns into account.

The way I figure, 4k is really just in it's infancy for a delivery format. It'll likely be several years until it really becomes a 'thing' at least for home viewing, etc. I think 1k and 2k will still be relevant for several years for theatrical release as well.

So, yes, other gear will certainly come out over the next few years that outclass and outperform this camera. However, it's unlikely, as far as I can figure, that it would become completely irrelevant for probably the better part of a decade.

HD is still relatively young, compared to various delivery formats -- in terms of history. And there are certainly still people who are still viewing TV and movies in standard definition.
 
Yeah, to each their own...


But the difference is pretty significant between global shutter and rolling shutter.

Rolling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx0k98YWxQU
Global: http://vimeo.com/63604452

And, at 12 stops of dynamic range it still beats dSLR, is pretty much on par with RED one.. and really isn't all that far behind some of the MUCH more expensive cameras:
 

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Dynamic range looks acceptably wide too me too :P

Of course, keep in mind this is a graded shot, don't know how far the blacks were crushed, etc.
 

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If you were my DP, I'd be pleased to know you had a super 35 sensor, and pleased that you, not I, had to deal with the other details of that camera. Really, the super 35 sized sensor and global shutter do sound nice. Not sure I'd care all that much about 4K yet.

On the other hand, I've become pretty debt-phobic, though I do it to myself too still, oy. But I'm with Jax (and perhaps Paul, as well?) on not recommending that you go into debt to get this camera. (And I know from experience that you can stop an order from B&H before it ships.) :P Oh well, hopefully you're a highly paid professional (at whatever) who will pay the credit card off in no time. Or whatever. It's your business, of course.
 
What is the crop factor on the 4k? Finding wide enough glass on the pocketcam isn't fun. I love the camera but a friendlier crop factor is something I'd happily pay for. I don't know why I'd need 4k other than to crop images. YMMV
 
brianluce said:
What is the crop factor on the 4k? Finding wide enough glass on the pocketcam isn't fun. I love the camera but a friendlier crop factor is something I'd happily pay for. I don't know why I'd need 4k other than to crop images. YMMV
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Ah, the irony of bemoaning a crop factor, then stating the only reason you'd want a bigger sensor is to crop the images anyway! Haha ;)

The 4k version has a S35 sensor.
 
8, I know this isn't what you asked, and I'm sorry to answer without answering. But isn't it true that image quality isn't actually all there is to consider...far from it?

Or does image quality trump everything?
 
Will Vincent said:
I'm no longer torn. I ordered the 4k
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Don't forget to order the other, essential bits and pieces. I directed and Salacious DOP'd and edited this: https://vimeo.com/paulrwalker/review/84971935/ccf932163f

We needed external battery packs (5 is a minimum number), couple more SSDs and some kind of rig. Also, a monitor is critical if you're outside in the sunshine. Can't focus otherwise!

And lots and lots and lots of storage on set.
 
richy said:
8, I know this isn't what you asked, and I'm sorry to answer without answering. But isn't it true that image quality isn't actually all there is to consider...far from it?

Or does image quality trump everything?
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actually i should have asked a better question your right.. i will now go and lash myself in my stupidity..


but I do hope this spurs Canon to lower the prices of their cinema cameras, they are now looking less desirable in terms of costs..
 
gorillaonabike said:
Don't forget to order the other, essential bits and pieces. I directed and Salacious DOP'd and edited this: https://vimeo.com/paulrwalker/review/84971935/ccf932163f

We needed external battery packs (5 is a minimum number), couple more SSDs and some kind of rig. Also, a monitor is critical if you're outside in the sunshine. Can't focus otherwise!

And lots and lots and lots of storage on set.
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Oh yes, I'm quite aware of all the other bits and bobs I'll need. Since I'll not see the camera for several months I've got plenty of time to acquire that.
 
richy said:
Not sure I'd care all that much about 4K yet.
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Quite frankly, I don't really care all that much about 4k yet either.. I thought I'd mentioned that, but maybe not. At any rate. I don't think 4k is really necessary, and likely won't be for quite a few years -- this part I know I mentioned.

The main motivating factors for me choosing this over the previous BMCC in micro 4/3 format are the global shutter, and larger sensor. Had I gone with the BMCC with micro 4/3 mount, as I was planning to do, I'd have also bought the metabones speedbooster, which would effectively make it behave as a super35. Given the price drop on the new 4k camera, and figuring in the cost of the metabones adapter along with the other BMCC, the price difference is $500. Lump on top of that the global shutter, and a bit of future proofing with 4k, and the decision became much clearer.

Do I plan on going out and shooting a feature (or even a short) in 4k? Not really.. but I could. But considering that to produce a 2k DCP at 2.39:1 only requires a 7% up-scale from 1k, that's going to remain a viable option for quite a long while.

Yes, I know many people don't think rolling shutter is a big deal.. it is to me. Global shutter is superior, because remember it's not just camera movement that causes issues, it's objects moving through the frame too.
 
brianluce said:
What is the crop factor on the 4k?
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1.7

brianluce said:
I don't know why I'd need 4k other than to crop images.
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I don't need 4k. Apparently I really wasn't as clear about that as I thought I'd been. No no.. just future proofing, along with the other more interesting aspects -- larger sensor and most importantly, global shutter.

jax_rox said:
Ah, the irony of bemoaning a crop factor, then stating the only reason you'd want a bigger sensor is to crop the images anyway! Haha ;)
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I chuckled at that too. :)

jax_rox said:
The 4k version has a S35 sensor.
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The sensor is 21.12mm x 11.88mm, slightly smaller than other super 35mm sensors. On the plus side, that means avoiding the vignetting from certain lenses.
 
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