Newbie Camera Help

[scantron]

Hi!
I've done some searches here on some older posts, and since technology and the marketplace are rapidly changing I'm in need of some advice in choosing my first camera for making some arty/weird films. I have a decent grasp of what I need vs. what I can afford.
I know that a 3ccd camera is the best place for a serious start, but those are just out of my price range. I use a MacBook Pro (with Firewire & external hard drive), and edit the video with iMovieHD while adding audio with Logic or even Garageband. I've just been experimenting with my Canon still camera's video recording abilities. It's a setup that works for me for now, and I'm sure I'll upgrade to better software & hardware in the future as my experience and needs grow. I have an extensive music background, so I'm pretty much covered as far as the audio side goes.
I actually kind of like semi-crappy looking images, like old film almost... What I mean is, I'm not looking for super high definition. I'm doing this for my own amusement, and like atmospheric filmmaking in the realm of Lynch, Brothers Quay, etc. I'm into creativity and using your limitations.
For now, I'm looking for a camcorder in the $500-ish range. The features I think I need are as follows-
I'd like to be able to add different lenses/filters (and hopefully some kind of homemade adapter to use my 35mm lenses), I'd like a decent amount of manual control (focus, white balance, aperture, etc.), I'd also like some sort of mic input. The ability to get a decent image in low level light is pretty important too.
As far as recording format goes, I don't know what's best. What formats are about to fade out? Is HD taking over? MiniDV, internal Hard Drive, etc... I'm a little lost. I just want some format that works with my Mac and won't be obsolete in a year.
I realize that this is a tall order for a $500-$600 camcorder, but there must be something close out there.
Thanks in advance for your advice.!

 

[Joe999]

Check out the Canon HV-20. $680 at B&H with free shipping. You get high definition, mic input, etc. Beg and borrow that extra $80 above you $600 range. If you want vintage footage from the HD footage you can always apply software filters when editing the video. That camcorder was going for $1000+ just a few months ago.

 

[scantron]

That looks like a nice camera, although it got only decent reviews. I wonder if the price has been dropping because they're about to come out with a redesigned model?

 

[Joe999]

Canon already did come out with a slightly upgraded model, the HG-10, just recently (thus I suspect the price drop of the hv20)-- that uses a hard drive to store the data. But the HV-20 is still a damn nice high def widescreen camcorder for the money, imho (perhaps others can comment). I would rather use tapes than a hard drive myself-- easy to pop one out, put in another tape, keep shooting.

That looks like a nice camera, although it got only decent reviews. I wonder if the price has been dropping because they're about to come out with a redesigned model?

 

[directorik]

I'm afraid there are no cameras avaliable in the $500-$600 range with
interchangeable lenses. You aren't going to find a camera in that range
with a mic input. And in that range you aren't going to find a camera that
shoots a decent picture with low light.

There are three things that are VERY important when getting a camera,
only two of which you mention:

Three CCD’s
Manual controls for the iris, shutter, focus and white balance.
A microphone input.

In the around $1,000 - $1,500 range there are currently only 5:

The JVC GZ-HD3 is a nice starter camera that records to a 60GB HDD
with manual controls and a mic input. It can be found for around $800.

The Panasonic series (PV-GS300, PV-GS400, PV-GS500) are terrific
3CCD cameras. It seems the 400 is hard to find and that’s too bad. It’s
a great little camera. But the 500 is still an excellent starter camera
with the essentials.

Sony DCR-HC1000 is very similar to the Panasonic cameras. If you’re
more comfortable with Sony, this is the camera for you.

I like the new JVC GZ-HD7. I’ve seen these on line for as little as $1,200.
A really nice Fujinon lens makes a huge difference and full manual
controls is important. Three 1/5’ 16:9 progressive scan CCD’s are pretty
impressive for a camera in this price range. It records directly to a built in 60GB hard drive.

Close is the Canon HV20. It records in HDV (1080i) and 24p (60i), has
a mic input and manual controls of white balance and focus but it
uses one 1/2.7” CMOS sensor rather than 3 CCD’s. For me the jury is
still out on the CMOS. And it’s so small the handling is difficult.

And don't kid yourself. The atmospheric filmmaking in the realm of Lynch,
Brothers Quay, etc comes from a lot of skill, talent and experience. Not
from the cameras they use.

But the truth is, any camera you can afford is the best camera to get. Learning
how to light, how to work with actors and crew, how to schedule and all the
other aspects is something you can do with any $500 to $600 camera.

 

[scantron]

Exactly. Thanks for the info.
I guess I didn't really mean interchangeable lenses, but the ability to add adapters and add-on lenses. Don't some of these inexpensive camcorders have even 1/8" mic inputs? I'm realizing that much of what I want to do involves low lighting and I'm going to have to invest in a camera that can handle that. Both the JVC GZ-HD3 & JVC GZ-HD7 that you mentioned look promising.
Believe me, I know that the filmmaking skills of Lynch, etc. does not come from their gear. I'm not expecting to just buy a camera and suddenly be as good as them. I'm never expecting to be as good as them even with years of experience under my belt! I just like that kind of filmmaking.
I'm not totally ignorant to the art of filmmaking & the creative process. I've been a painter since I was a child, and writing & recording music for years. I have experience in stopmo animation, in which you can use a digital still camera, and want to take it further into live action. This is all just for fun and the pursuit of expression.