archived-videos New Teleporting Effects

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC

Which one of these two versions put together back to back looks better and why?

https://vimeo.com/101051210

PW is mdmpllc

I am reworking special effects. Feedback will help me determine if I am on the right track.

The second version is a newer version. I was inspired to change it to the newer version after watching the pilot for the TV series Weird Science and Star Trek Voyager.

I am planning to re-shoot the model spaceship next year with my crew in a makeshift greenscreen room. We will not be using silver fishing wire ever again. I am planning we use a greenscreen colored stand or wiring to make it look better than before.

So, right now, I am primarily interested in the teleporting effects with the cyborgs. Any suggestions to make it better?

Thanks in advance for help.
 
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Okay. I am rendering a new one with fixes for the first two scenes. Once they are better, we'll work on the third with the actual teleport.

This time, the ship should look like it is flying in at least supersonic speed. It also will have new sound effects. It will take a while to upload afterwards with DSL speed.
 
I see you work hard to make it better, but maybe you should take some time to look at what you make and really watch to see what really happens on screen and what that means. Instead of imagining what it should mean according to you.
I know that is very hard: it takes some kind of detachment from the story inside your head to only look what the screen is showing.

What I see:
1) a spaceship descending in some kind of reverse mode
2) a 3 feet long spageship flying in a slowly descending trajectory in some kind of upward mode between 2 trees. It almost flies upside down.
3) a very slow blurfest (fast moving near lens: short time in frame. Further away: more time in frame.) Way too much blur for the speed.
4) does the ship have no doors? It takes of and then beams them off board. This has been pointed out a few times now.
(I still don't like the ball effect: seems arbitrary for the sake of using an effect, instead of being part of the transport effect.)

Btw, I don't mean to sound harsh.
I'm just telling what I see and try to help you with fixing this scene.
 
One problem I see is that any sci-fi fan will instantly recognize that the ship is a Viper MK 7 from BSG spray painted black.

Instead of filming a model on green screen, just have someone do an original CG model and animate the thing.

To pull of the miniature effect properly you would have to be awesome at lighting green screen in a way that it matches with the plates and have some sort of a motorized camera rig to get smooth motions.
 
What I'd like to do next if the background plates work, is storyboard new angles for the ship that will work.

This will help for the re-shoot of the ship next year to get all of the right angles. I went through all of the ship footage to refresh my memory of what we shot two years ago. The present angles are what we have that is useful. We have footage of the ship in the wooded area we were shooting and it looks like the ship is in The Land Of The Giants. So, that footage is useless.
 
Sorry, no custom made ships or cg ships on our budget.

The ship has no doors. So, the crew is beamed down, which makes sense and flies away to help in the search for silver demon hunters and human Amazon soldiers from their home world. The ship has AI and can pilot itself without a crew. If I added in more footage, you would see it takes commands from the cyborgs General Angela Bruno and carries them out.
 
The actors work is done. There is no calling them back. SAG and AFTRA merged. That would require all new contracts and I don't want to change what we started in this film. It was done as a nonunion production.

I will work with SAG when I have a business partner on future productions.
 
Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
Sorry, no custom made ships or cg ships on our budget.

The ship has no doors. So, the crew is beamed down, which makes sense and flies away to help in the search for silver demon hunters and human Amazon soldiers from their home world. The ship has AI and can pilot itself without a crew. If I added in more footage, you would see it takes commands from the cyborgs General Angela Bruno and carries them out.
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase.
I'm not asking whether the model ship has doors.
But has the ship in the story no doors?
(If so, how did anyone ever build it if you can't walk in and out?)
I'm saying it looks weird to land, teleport a few meters and take off.
It would make more sense if the ship stays at least like 20 to 30 feet above the ground. (That would be a height that can be compared with military choppers dropping people off with a rope.) Or much higher: that way the ship can maintain an overview of the area.

Consider this: if the ship has no doors IN THE STORY, you need to explain it, but it will sound silly.
If the ship has no doors IN THE STORY and you don't explain it, viewers will think: "Why not use the doors?"
If the ship has doors IN THE STORY, you don't have to mention or show them, because nobody will wonder: "Does it have doors?"
Just teleport everyone from a height above grond level, like I suggested (20 to 30 feet) and NOBODY will wonder: "Why did they teleport instead of opening the door?"

Whether or not the ship has AI and takes orders is irrelevant for the teleportation at ground level.
 
What about 1 non union model/actress with the different costumes and wigs to get the static shots.
Compose them together in a very wide shot for the teleportation, so she is too small to see it's a double. And then cut to the next shot you have.
 
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THE ACTORS WORK IS DONE.

I don't screw my actors. They will star in the film. There is a lot more footage for other scenes they are in than what you can see in the 22 minute version of the film. Some of those additional scenes will be shown in the extended version I am working on.

The cyborgs built the ship. They have surpassed human intelligence in the film and series. In the script for the next film, which is a pilot feature film, the cyborgs are designing a giant star ship bigger than a Battlestar Galactica to replace the existing spaceship. It will be the Athena series after the goddes of war with more advanced technology and weapons. Anthena is also AI and has hanger decks to launch fleets of viper-like attack smaller ships. Athena is too big to build on a planet. It is built in space from space stations.

The present ship is replacing an older series designed by Earth scientists before the humans of Earth destroyed themselves with a nuclear war. The Andromeda series has artificial gravity inside and anti-gravity to allow for floating and making manuvers that jets and rocket ships cannot make.

Andromenda was built from the inside out. Once the teleporters were on line, they could close up the outside shell.
 
I found better ship fooatge for scene two and found I have New Blue motion blur effects I forgot about. I rendereed a new scene 2.

I will upload it tonight after I get home from work.

If the new version looks better, I will start storyboarding the reshoot to get the correct angles.

The ball of energy makes a world of sense in the teleporting. The energy has to take form from something before it splits into the forms of the individual cyborgs. Also, it allows me to cut into a close-up of the cyborgs from an establishing shot with a natural built-in transition.
 
And, this is all that can be done with it at this point.

https://vimeo.com/101465250

PW is mdmpllc

I will storyboard it when I get the time. And, we will get the proper angles for the ship when we re-shoot the ship.

The existing footage of the actors is the only footage of the cyborgs I will use. I will try out some camera shake software with the background plate to even it out as good as possible with the foreground shake.

Thanks for the suggestions.
 
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Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
I will try out some camera shake software with the background plate to even it out as good as possible with the foreground shake.
Click to expand...

That won't work. You need to track the foreground movement, and apply it to the background.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're cut out for VFX work like this. With each iteration you've simply added different problems, or different variations on the same problems, rather than progressively refined it to a significantly better sequence.

I understand you're limited to certain assets with this, but that's not the fundamental problem here. Good VFX is grounded first in observation - of physics, texture, light, perspective, etc - and the skills to apply that observation to create fantastic elements that are still grounded in reality enough to read correctly for the audience. I feel like you're missing the observational skills and/or practice necessary for this. You're too wrapped up in the backstory, the explanations you've developed, the conceptual part, and you're not just looking at the elements in the shot and seeing that they don't fit together properly.

I'm not sure what more to suggest at this point, other than finding someone who is good at this stuff and letting them build the sequence for you.
 
Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
THE ACTORS WORK IS DONE.

I don't screw my actors. They will star in the film. There is a lot more footage for other scenes they are in than what you can see in the 22 minute version of the film. Some of those additional scenes will be shown in the extended version I am working on.
Click to expand...
I'm not telling you to screw anyone.
The use of doubles isn't that uncommon. Scarlet has a few on set for Avengers 2.
I was just thinking out loud, trying to help yout to fix the scene, since the moving shot will just give you headaches, while no solution will look believable (not even tracking the forground to make the background match, because of the parallax effect). And using a double would be a way to create a steady shot of the characters appearing on the surface.

Another solution is to show the teleport-beam going down into a forest and skip the shot of characters appearing and just go to the next shot.
That way you can use the hovering shot + beam and a very wide landscape shot where the beam dissappears in the forest.
If you want you can put touristic shots, showing the planet before those two shot.

Et voilà, you skipped the moving background problem and added more logic to the movements of the ship.



Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
The cyborgs built the ship. They have surpassed human intelligence in the film and series. In the script for the next film, which is a pilot feature film, the cyborgs are designing a giant star ship bigger than a Battlestar Galactica to replace the existing spaceship. It will be the Athena series after the goddes of war with more advanced technology and weapons. Anthena is also AI and has hanger decks to launch fleets of viper-like attack smaller ships. Athena is too big to build on a planet. It is built in space from space stations.

The present ship is replacing an older series designed by Earth scientists before the humans of Earth destroyed themselves with a nuclear war. The Andromeda series has artificial gravity inside and anti-gravity to allow for floating and making manuvers that jets and rocket ships cannot make.
Click to expand...

Very interesting, but it has nothing to do with fixing the scene ;)


Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
Andromenda was built from the inside out. Once the teleporters were on line, they could close up the outside shell.
Click to expand...

I see.
Having studied aerospace engineering for 2 years (I quit and went to artschool to learn the make movies), I can tell you that it's not a failsafe design, because you can fix anything in the inside except the teleporter.
But it's your universe with your rules.
I hope you understand what I tried to explain about when you need to explain stuff or not.
No door + landing before teleporting seems weird.
Than don't land and teleport from altitude.

ItDonnedOnMe said:
.....
With each iteration you've simply added different problems, or different variations on the same problems, rather than progressively refined it to a significantly better sequence.
...........
Click to expand...

Sounds harsh, but comparing version 1 and the last one, I must say he made a sharp observation.

BTW, the globe in the first shot suddenly gets darker. I noticed it before, but didn't say it yet.
About that shot: does the ship indeed come from outerspace?
 
Yes, the ship comes from outer space.

True about the spaceship's design. Remember, with low/no budget Indie films that the people hired to make the models don't have degrees in aerospace engineering. They are just interested in something that looks cool. And, I have to go along with what they come up with because I can't afford better. Years ago, I designed my own spaceships. I have not in a long time. I just tell my artists what I am looking for and they come up with the designs.

IDOM, most of the time I am in a rush to get a new edit done with suggestions from here in between replacing an air conditioner, working on my car, doing food shopping, laundry, things for my day job, cleaning the apartment, and many other things. So, I don't have time to think or plan everything through. That is why I need a business partner to help with the creation of productions from every stage of the production. I don't have the time to do it alone. Also, more resources to make a film will help to make something better.

To me, the new backgrounds for the first 2 scenes work. Aa re-shoot with camera angles of the ship that match with selll the visuals a whole lot better.

After I wrote the post last weekend, I thought the camera shake software may do more good with the foreground footage with the actors. When I have the time, I will try it out.

WalterB, if I had people as dedicated as you working for my, my productions would be better. Too many people I have spend too much time looking at their watches to see when they can go home.
 
Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
Yes, the ship comes from outer space.

True about the spaceship's design. Remember, with low/no budget Indie films that the people hired to make the models don't have degrees in aerospace engineering. They are just interested in something that looks cool. And, I have to go along with what they come up with because I can't afford better. Years ago, I designed my own spaceships. I have not in a long time. I just tell my artists what I am looking for and they come up with the designs.

..................
Click to expand...

What I try to say is that you can disconnect the model (without door) from the 'reality in the movie'.
Although the model may not have a door, it doesn't mean it can't have a door in the story.
And the fun part is, you don't have to show a door at all.
People will only question the door when your ship descends, teleports on ground level and takes off again.
When teleporting from a higher altitude, nobody will even think about a door. Which means you don't need to explain anything about building from inside out and such. Which means less techno-blabla, more time for the story :)

It's just like a sitcom like Friends: you see them enter from the hallway, but you never (or at least never when I watched it by accident) see the outside door of the building. Still everybody assumes it's there. The characters move from the bar to home without visibly walking through that exterior door.

You don't need to overcomplicate the details of your story.
It's all an illusion...
 
WalterB said:
What I try to say is that you can disconnect the model (without door) from the 'reality in the movie'.
Although the model may not have a door, it doesn't mean it can't have a door in the story.
And the fun part is, you don't have to show a door at all.
People will only question the door when your ship descends, teleports on ground level and takes off again.
When teleporting from a higher altitude, nobody will even think about a door. Which means you don't need to explain anything about building from inside out and such. Which means less techno-blabla, more time for the story :)

It's just like a sitcom like Friends: you see them enter from the hallway, but you never (or at least never when I watched it by accident) see the outside door of the building. Still everybody assumes it's there. The characters move from the bar to home without visibly walking through that exterior door.

You don't need to overcomplicate the details of your story.
It's all an illusion...
Click to expand...


If you have ever seen the original The Day The Earth Stood Still, the alien spaceship had a hidden door that vanished when it closed.

In Star Trek Voyager, there were doors hidden by holigrams.

I like to think a society like these cyborgs helped to build would have teleporters both on an off the ship. So, if something failed on the ship, they had ways other than a door to get inside. Also, the ship itself is not just AI, it's like a giant robot that is capable of doing most of its repairs itself.

Research has shown that modifying existing model ships is cheaper than building a custom / original design as well.

I am hoping to find an enthusiastic business partner who shares my passion for film, science fiction, space, technology, robots, and AI.
 
I'm not sure how this has progressed, but I did check the most recent version you posted... I'm of the school of thought that less is sometimes more. With the limitations imposed upon you, I think the best course would be to show the ship as little as possible, maybe one atmospheric shot to establish, and then the teleportation. Though if it were me and reshooting isn't an option I would just have the teleportation take place off screen and go to the next good shot you have.
 
I talked to my prop master. Due to expenses, we will wait until October or November this year to shop around in antique model stores and architectural supply stores to make something new from a combination of model spaceship parts and original shapes from architectural model building materials.

I have 2 years of architectural training from my days in college before I switched to electrical engineering technology and computer technology, where I earned my degrees. I already roughed out a new spaceship with color pencils in a drawing pad. I'm looking to make something with antigravity coils and directional rockets as a next generation ship a generation past an artificial intelligence starship that could transport three crew people. We are keeping all of the interior scenes with the actors. But, those insides require a bigger ship. So, we will design one accordingly.

My prop masters critique of you guys is some of you guys are too literal with limited imagination for science fiction where you have to project your thoughts to a world of new technological breakthroughs and technology. And, I agree with him. I work with real world computers and electronics every day and I know how to project technology for future technology. We are keeping teleporting with no doors. Watch more science fiction. Blakes Seven's spaceship, The Liberator was an AI ship that was self-healing / self-repairing. Our Andromeda can repair itself too. Although it needs assistance from the cyborgs at times. The cyborgs are WiFi linked to the ship.

The Athena series will be more advanced in every way. We are showing that once a super intelligencee from artificial intelligence is developed in a civilization, technology jumps forward in leaps and bounds much faster than what humans can accomplish.

Also, since this is fiction, my prop master said, allow for some fantasy in the fiction.

From what I remeber of the footage, we only had the one shot of the teleport. So, I will see how much my camera shake software can reduce it from the one shot.

The shots we have limit what can be done with special effects as well. I am not a full time special effects persone either. I am more of a hobbyist for my own productions I do it. My effects are hit and miss as a magazine reviewer said. I am trying to fix at least some of the misses for the next version.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
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