New Indie Film Magazine
- Thread starter etnad0
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Right now its open to anything you want related to independent film. I have a few people covering some local events and projects, but more is better.
It will be for print and Kindle.
I would be willing to help you set up ad placements, etc....Would just need some numbers from you and we can get it going.
Thanks for the offer. I'd appreciate that. I sent you a message with my email address.
I'm fairly opinionated, and like to type.
What exactly are you looking for, beyond generic "content"?
Anything original. Opinion column, reviews, etc. As long as its independent film related I'm open to it.
You're looking to start a new print publication on indie film? I can assure you right now that there's absolutely no market for it.
I've worked with and for film magazines and even if they're only doing a run of 3000 copies per issues it still runs at a big loss. And that's general film, indie film is even less likely to have a market.
Have you done much research on the subject? I'd be really interested to hear a rebuttal and/or see any of the financial and creative plans you've made.
I've worked with and for film magazines and even if they're only doing a run of 3000 copies per issues it still runs at a big loss. And that's general film, indie film is even less likely to have a market.
Have you done much research on the subject? I'd be really interested to hear a rebuttal and/or see any of the financial and creative plans you've made.
Maybe he doesn't need the money. He could be doing it just for the love of film/movies.
Possibly, but I think that's why the internet was invented.
It's not just that you won't make money with a print publication, it's that you will actively lose money.
People told Bill Gates the same thing... but here is my rebuttal. Let's assume that it costs $1.00 per issue to print. If they do a 3,000 copy run it costs $3,000 up front. I don't have that problem. My fee comes off the back end after a Barnes and Noble or mom & pop shop places an order (just an example).
The only thing I pay for upfront are proofs before they go to print and barcodes. Very low financial risk on my part. The magazine is only 1 piece of a much larger puzzle.
Money is easy to get if you know the where, when, and the how...
Where: Anywhere and everywhere
When: Whenever you do anything
How: help others more than you help yourself.
Most people don't get the last part which is why its so hard for them to make money. The other part of this is that I truly do love movies. Sci-Fi originals are among my favorite films, regardless of how bad they are sometimes. Its a refreshing break from Hollywood blockbusters.
That's not true at all. I have 4 books in print right now that actively make money. People still like to hold something in their hand.
Also, if you do some digging into some of the film magazines that aren't making money, are they independent or mainstream? The problem with the mainstream magazine is that many people have to pay to get in, whether it be article or advertisements. Similar to the payola problem with radio.
Also, you don't see Universal saying "look we're in XYZ Magazine". The independent market is different because those people will tell their family and friends to grab a copy because they are in it. There is a market for everything if you know how to market it.
Keep in mind that the person that invented the Candom (condoms for soda cans) is making a lot of money selling a gag product. Who'd have thought a soda can needed a condom? LOL
People told Bill Gates the same thing but that was because he was doing something new that people didn't understand. Print media is a dying format and can is only making money in cases where the publication is sufficiently well known that people will keep buying hard copies of it because that's where news starts. But even then the margins are very small, so the Microsoft comparison suggests a wild misunderstanding of the economics of publishing.
If you find a printer who'll print a 3000 copy run at $1 an issue then I'll eat my hat but, leaving that aside, I think that you don't really understand the distribution system on magazines. There is no chance that somewhere like Barnes and Noble would pick you up on Issue 1, especially not a magazine about indie film, and 'Mom&Pop' shops might place an order for 5 copies a month to begin with. Especially when you're starting out you'll need to accept that any retailers who are going to stock your magazine from Issue 1 are going to want it for practically nothing. All magazines take a massive hit at the beginning because they need to establish a readership. How many times have you walked into a shop and spent $4 on a random magazine you've never read or heard of before?
You say that Barnes and Noble...etc is just an example but managing to sell 3000 copies (and that's a very small circulation) a month will be a full time job. A run that size would require a upfront investment of probably $20k to even get the project off the ground. You say this is '1 piece of a much larger puzzle' but I'd worry about working on or with any puzzle where a print publication is not the largest piece.
I don't want to sound like I'm intentionally dismissing or doubting your project, I just get the feeling, from what you've written, that you don't really understand the financial and time commitments (not to mention insecurity) that comes with publishing a magazine. The fact that you say it's 'very low financial risk on my part' would be a massive red flag for me and probably anyone else who works in print.
EDIT: Just seen your other posts. What experience do you have in publishing? You say you have 4 books currently in print that are making money? Who's publishing them (presuming it's not a print-on-demand service like Lulu)?
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Point taken about Gates, but the old ways of doing print are dying as well. I can launch a print magazine with very little risk on my part. In addition it will also be published on Kindle and possibly other eReader formats. Its not the only part of my plan and I don't plan to become a multi millionaire from it.
You must have missed the words "example". Price depends on print run, page count, etc. for traditional printers. As far as how many times I've spent money on a random magazine. Lots of times to be honest. I like Indie stuff and new start ups. I still have the King Magazine tester issue they put out before the official first issue.
I know B&N won't pick up a first issue, but they might... I have books listed on their website and they will guaranteed list you on the B&N website even if they don't stock you on their shelves. My book sells much better and faster on Amazon than B&N, but its there. If it does well enough, they will give you a test run on the shelf. Since they order through Ingram or Baker & Taylor, they can order my books directly through them. The magazine will be the same way.
That's where you are 100% WRONG. I don't need a print run of 3,000 copies and I can tell you that I'd pay $2.18 per copy for 118 pages. If I was going to do a 3,000 copy run, it would cost me $6,540 + shipping to be exact. Just looking at prices on magazines, a 118 page magazine goes for $2.99-$7.99 depending on the publication. In my case, the $4.95 price tag would NET (not gross) $2.02 profit per sale direct to consumer.
I'm using a POD service that is linked to Ingram and Baker & Taylor (not lightning source). A shop order would net me $0.82 per copy. So if I managed to get an order from 100 shops for 5 copies each. That's 500 x .82 = $410 NET. Not a ton of cash, but considering that I'm only investing roughly $40 to get it started, you can see the ROI is pretty nice.
Now with Kindle, based on my book sales, Kindle usually ends up with 3x the sales of print. I'd make $0.70 per sale on a $1.99 price with Kindle. If we use the example of 3 x 500 = 1,500 x .70 = $1,050. Again, just an example. $1,050 + 410 = $1,460 NET for every 2,000 copies that get sold.
Doing my print through POD and Kindle changes the entire business model.
Feel free to poke holes. I actually appreciate it because it makes me look at what I'm doing, reassess, make corrections, fix things, etc.
EDIT: Just seen your other posts. What experience do you have in publishing? You say you have 4 books currently in print that are making money? Who's publishing them (presuming it's not a print-on-demand service like Lulu)?[/QUOTE]
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First I just wanted to let you know that all feedback you are receiving is good for you, even if its wrong, its good to take it all....I just depends on how strong you are to continue and stop.
I can't say if Magazines are still HOT right now, I can say its the NEWS "paper" that is dying not the news. I know, I love a good magazine or two, but no longer get "the Paper" (news)
As people grow up, they forget that there are other kids just graduating school, college, etc... And there looking for good "CONTENT"
It is the attitude of the people that think everything is dying is the reason why they wont do anything.
There is a large group of people that make excuses in their head for reasons why they wont try, there is a very very small group that just tries. Seems like your in the right group.
Just do it! And if it fails, you find a better way to do it the next time. Maybe you found that kindle was HOT and your website was HOT, but the physical magazine was a money pit, so you drop the physical part.
I lost about $100,000 of investors money before I could make them there first $400,000 each.....
To make the big bucks, you need to be, the Investor, the business man, the reader, the advertiser, and the sales man.
I will email you what I think your first step should be....
I can't say if Magazines are still HOT right now, I can say its the NEWS "paper" that is dying not the news. I know, I love a good magazine or two, but no longer get "the Paper" (news)
As people grow up, they forget that there are other kids just graduating school, college, etc... And there looking for good "CONTENT"
It is the attitude of the people that think everything is dying is the reason why they wont do anything.
There is a large group of people that make excuses in their head for reasons why they wont try, there is a very very small group that just tries. Seems like your in the right group.
Just do it! And if it fails, you find a better way to do it the next time. Maybe you found that kindle was HOT and your website was HOT, but the physical magazine was a money pit, so you drop the physical part.
I lost about $100,000 of investors money before I could make them there first $400,000 each.....
To make the big bucks, you need to be, the Investor, the business man, the reader, the advertiser, and the sales man.
I will email you what I think your first step should be....
I'm glad that you seem to have a better understanding of how to produce the magazine than I first imagined but I still think you're seriously underestimating costs and that they'll be at least 2 or 3 times what you're projecting. Perhaps that won't matter but making a magazine is not the same as having a print on demand book for sale. You will have to print a certain number of the magazines each month, whether you can sell them or not, and that's where the risk is involved.
I'm still curious to know why you think that you can market an indie film magazine. I'm not necessarily saying you can't, I'm simply curious to know why you think you can do it. I know someone who started a niche film magazine last year and, despite putting everything she has into marketing (and that's a lot of social media clout), the magazine still only has about 1000 subscribers (possibly less).
I (roughly) agree with what NickSoares is saying about people wanting the 'news' part of 'newspaper' but not the 'paper' part. Do I think there's a market for online content about indie film? Of course! That's why I have the Indie Cinematographer section of my website. I just think that anyone trying to dive straight into print media needs to be strongly dissuaded
I'm still curious to know why you think that you can market an indie film magazine. I'm not necessarily saying you can't, I'm simply curious to know why you think you can do it. I know someone who started a niche film magazine last year and, despite putting everything she has into marketing (and that's a lot of social media clout), the magazine still only has about 1000 subscribers (possibly less).
I (roughly) agree with what NickSoares is saying about people wanting the 'news' part of 'newspaper' but not the 'paper' part. Do I think there's a market for online content about indie film? Of course! That's why I have the Indie Cinematographer section of my website. I just think that anyone trying to dive straight into print media needs to be strongly dissuaded
I'll get a sample copy printed for each local business I plan to approach. I use to write for a local newspaper here in Vegas. It was a smaller paper, not the Review Journal, and I gained a lot of experience with sales, writing, marketing, advertising, etc. The magazine is going to be quarterly to start, then at most bi-monthly. The reason is that I can use the months in between releases to approach more businesses.
As far as costs, if they are interested, they'll have the information on how to order more directly from distributors they probably already deal with to get their current order of magazines. No extra steps involved and the financial cost on my part is $2.18 to gain a new outlet.
The problem is that she put everything into marketing instead of putting everything into the people. My books have all sold via word of mouth and not a dime has gone into advertising or marketing. When I wanted to market my books I started an online radio show, invited other people on to promote their books on the paranormal and other conspiracy theories. They wanted their fans to know they would be on so they told their fans, and as word got out more people tuned in. I still get roughly 1,000 listeners per week in the archives and I haven't done a show in about 4 months.
The same applies to a print magazine. What person starting out doesn't want to tell everyone they know that they are featured in it? The best way to get more press is to have press already covering you. That's why this is only a very small piece of the overall picture. The website will promote the online show we are currently filming and it will promote the magazine. The magazine will promote the show and the website. The show will promote both the site and the magazine. Its all about giving people the opportunity to shine and they will promote everything via word of mouth which is much more effective than all the advertising and marketing put together.
1,000 subscribers would net roughly $2,020 per month in print or $700 per month with Kindle. Maybe your friend should reassess her business model because she could run it at a profit. HP has a service as well that will print, package, and ship magazines to customers and all that has to be done is wait for payments and upload content for print.
I (roughly) agree with what NickSoares is saying about people wanting the 'news' part of 'newspaper' but not the 'paper' part. Do I think there's a market for online content about indie film? Of course! That's why I have the Indie Cinematographer section of my website. I just think that anyone trying to dive straight into print media needs to be strongly dissuaded
I agree too, which is why it will be available on Kindle. Also, I've done this before with a local hip hop magazine, but the indie music scene is much different than the indie film scene. With an album people can work alone or with a small group. With film there is a lot more contact with other people so word spreads fast.
If I was going to do this like I did back in the day, I'd agree with you 100% because that cost me a lot out of pocket. Now that I know I can accomplish the same thing with very little cash and with reliable and reputable companies that take their money on the back end, it feels like a no brainer to do again.
I'm curious as to why you think I need to order a certain amount of prints?
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