Need Idea's for a GreenScreen Room.

King Goldfish

King Goldfish

Low on Cash.

Im learning how to Key in Alpha channel to make an object appear over a background.

I still havnt figured out how to mat yet.

I tried a red curtain I have in my computer room just because I havnt figured out how Im going to build my inexpensive green room.

But I have to much pink in my skintone (Thank you my irish ancestors) and I have Blue eyes so Obvious Green is the color of choice.

I have no Green background to test this out until I build a screen.


So whats the best way to do this. I have a 1600 sq ft house with absolutly no room. Someone suggested Painting one wall in my house a Neon Green color with a high gloss.

I can do that, then just paint it white when I move since its only one wall.

But that would mean I would have to move my furniture around. My house isnt very semetric either. I have no walls downstars really. I have 2 rooms 1 Downstairs is a large room thats half kitchen and dining and half TV family room/Formal dining. then on the other side of a wall in front is a Giant 2 story Loft. but the wall that seperates them is a 2 way fireplace with a smoke stack extruded from the wall and the rest is all weird angled walls.

Upstairs are 2 bathrooms and 3 bedrooms. All filled with furniture and beds and one small bedroom filled with computers. So Unless Im willing to move my bed back and forth Itsnot a very practical Idea.


Then there is my Garage. But both sides have weird work benches. I could drape a large green piece of cotton or silk but its kind of dusty. Im afraid the dust will cause an undesirable atmospheric effect.


So I was thinking something really off the wall.. being I live in California and as most backyard are out here i have maybe a 20x30 foot backyard patio. I was thinking a large tent? be neat if I could find a tent with the right shade of green. that way when its erected , the walls are pulled fairly tight and I would have an instand backdrop.

Now comes the lighting. How do I create lighting with no shadows? What I orriginally wanted to do was built a Box Screen that i saw plans for On the internet. You place polyerothane plastic (Green) over a squared frame and place like 6 floresant lights behind the screen.. Causing the screen to glow so no lights in front of you place shadows on it.


Remember, Im just setting this up for testing out bluescreening techniques


throw some ideas at me. I dont have cash to run out right now and rent a studio or a large U-Store-It storage shed but i want it to work like the real deal.
 
First, I would NOT paint a green-screen wall with high gloss. Flat flat flat! The green's the same color, egg-shell to high gloss, so why cause an even greater possibility of hot spots and bounced-back light? Keep whatever you paint as flat and reflectionless as possible.

Paint the largest wall you have. Remember if you want to shoot an actor head-to-toe you'll have to paint the floor, and that seam where the wall meets the floor will be an issue, even if you paint the floor green. (Most pro studios have a seamless transition from wall to floor for precisely this reason)

For testing purposes, I'd see if you can find a discarded fiberglass shower wall, a peice of very smooth plywood, or any other type of very smooth, somewhat large surface. Even your wall if you must, but I'd try and find a 4'x8' peice of plywood first. (If you must paint your wall, paint it edge to edge so that when you re-paint it, there's not this odd, off-color patch. Also, it'll take a few coats to get a green wall back to white. Prepare yourself.)

Use a flourescent-looking green. You can buy the real-deal from Rosco, but it's expensive. Just get something that you would never think of wearing. It should work fine. Most editing and graphics programs let you pick the color to be keyed out, so as long as it's hideous, you should be OK.

When it's dry, light it with a couple of china balls (chinese lanterns). Get the big ones. If there's a cost plus near you, they're about 6 bucks each, and don't come with the sockets. Buy a couple of clip lights from Home Depot for about 5 bucks when you get the paint. Splurge and get the porcelain sockets. They won't melt. It's worth it. Get 150 watt bulbs.

When you've got them assembled, hang them far enough away to get a nice, soft glow that looks even to the eye. Try to get the exposure to about 80%, or just above what skin tones are being exposed at. Don't worry about the edges of the screen, just where your camera frame lines are.

(If you want to be really anal, which can be important when shooting greenscreen, use a meter or your camera's zebra exposure display. I'll elaborate more if needed.)

This will also create a great backlight, which helps pick the subject out of the background. Alternately, you can drape the camera-side of the lanterns with dark cloth to eliminate this backlight.

Light your subject as needed. If they're close enough to throw shadows on the wall, use something soft and big. If they're far enough away, go wild!

There are definitely some backlit green-screens out there, but the majority of them are front lit. It just works.

If you have issues keying out the green, increase or decrease the amount of light striking the green-screen. If you notice the green keys out unevenly, try to adjust where your background lights are placed to even it out. Watch for green reflections on very shiny skin. This low-budget method has worked well for me in the past. Should end up running you between $30 and $50 for everything you need to do it for real...

PS: I haven't seen your garage, but I wouldn't worry about the dust in the garage if it's not crazy-dusty. Finding a spare wall in there might be better than painting your living room wall!

Good luck!

(Um, FYI, I have also shot three features as a DP, and many many short films, so just let me know if you have any more green-screen issues...)

Jim
 
Great input jmac.. some good ideas. So softer lights and pulling them farther back would decrease shadow.


The only reason I was told by this guy (Who I emailed who was using premier to greenscreen his short films) was because "Flat draws in shadows more"

But i guess both flat and sheen have their pros and cons. I guess if its too shiney you will get "Hot Spots' as you suggested.

Ill try flat first since you can paint gloss over flat but you cant paint flat over gloss without primer first.


I do like a nice amberish glow to my videos. I know some people love true color and I guess it depends on what kind of mood you're trying to set but I've always been facinated with film that looks slightly aged or brownish tints to them. I like Dark City and 1984 and other films like that. Kind of almost a 60s look to them where the colors are slightly drab.

But then again Im into sci fi too.
 
There's basic physics at work here. The only reason high-gloss might "appear" to have less shadows is that you're just distracting yourself with all these reflections and hot spots you now must deal with. Who cares about shadows when your background is blowing out?

There is nothing technically superior to a dry, low-reflection wall when you're trying to pull a key. (And we're talking specifically about standard, front-lit green-screens.)

Regardless of what you want the final image to look like, green-screen consitancy is a must. And it's not just my experience: just look at any production still from a pro set where they're using green screen, and it's all the same. Flat-green paint, evenly lit. Rosco makes one of the standards in green-screen paint, Rosco Chroma-Green, and you can't buy a gloss version. They don't make it! It's just the technology, not the art. (The Matrix had a TON of behind the scenes footage, stills, etc if you want a reference.)

Do whatever you want with your subject, it doesn't matter, as long as your background is consistant and you don't dress your talent in green. (But if you want to use green, I've seen flourescent yellow used. Check out behind the scenes footage on Air Force One where they're jumping from plane to plane.)

I also love that look you're talking about. Also the de-saturated color shift in City of Lost Children is great...

Jim
 
King Goldfish said:
So I was thinking something really off the wall.. being I live in California and as most backyard are out here i have maybe a 20x30 foot backyard patio. I was thinking a large tent? be neat if I could find a tent with the right shade of green. that way when its erected , the walls are pulled fairly tight and I would have an instand backdrop.
Click to expand...

I helped a friend one time shoot a greenscreen short and he used a huge tarp like you would find at a camping store. It didn't work so well. The material was really, really wrinkly and the background looked like crap in the end. Granted, I think he rushed through post to get it done for an assignment. But there was notice outline around all the actors, plus there were spots in the screen that were not chroma keyed right because the material was too wrinkly and it caused weird shadows and stuff.

Anyway, I would just make sure it's really, really tight if you try this.
 
Definitely go with the link that Poke posted. ZenSteve posted some test images utilizing this material a while ago - I'll have to dig up the link. They worked remarkably well and it is really cheap. The plus side is that you can drag this thing outside and use the sun as your light source (particuarily on diffuse cloudy days) for perfect keys.
 
Poke said:
http://www.jushhome.com/Bluescreen/Bluescreen.html

Fairly simple and cheap design. I've seen portable greenscreens sitting outside of Austin Studios a few times and they don't look any different than this.

Poke
Click to expand...

Thats pretty cool bu i could see his shadow 2 times at the end.

plus there is a lot of seam. Would I have to apply 2 layers of key effect? one for the light and darker shade? when you feather you get a weird shadowish border around your live shot.

I'll just experiment.. Ill post photos for you guys later if I find something that works for me.

But laying the molding strips first then applying material over it seems like a cool idea. I got a nail/staple gun in my closet and some hot glue gun so I can get that material pretty tight. of course I dont want to use to many staples. Im not applying glue behind the strips though. I plan on selling this house in a year and I dont want to have to retexture the wall.

Anyways Im gonna use my computer room I think or just use the upper part of me for testing shot instead of full body shots.

but I think i'll go with green over blue since I have blue eyes.

what are the benefits of blue over green? does green need more front lighting?
 
all to remember:

1) Keep lighting constant on the greenscreen.
-- The more you increase your keying threshold, the worse it will look.

2) Don't put actors right against the board.
-- a) The green light will reflect onto the back of their shoulders.
-- b) Actors will cast shadows onto the greenscreen.

3) I forget...too early.
 
I've had pretty good results with a very basic bluescreen in the past... it was just a canvas room divider painted blue and lit with work lamps... did the editing in Premier and it looked great.

The key to bluesreen/greenscreen is not to have shadows, so that the entire screen is the same colour.
 
King Goldfish said:
plus there is a lot of seam.
Click to expand...

Instead of going the table cloth route, you could visit a fabric store and find a single piece of material like felt. The station I work at uses a green felt curtain as it's WX wall.

Poke
 
I went to WalMart which has a large Fabric center. But the lady told me most fabric stores only carry 48 inch wide.

So I just ripped it in 2 (4 yards by 48in). Im about to go into my garage now and start building the frame. Im just going to hang it on my wall like a picture frame when Im all done. I wish my wife didnt return the mini steamer iron she bought for her workclothes. They were too thick for it but i bet it would have been perfect for this.


Ill post my work when Im done of the finished screen. if the seams are an issue then the next step is going to be to remove all the boxes on one side of my garage, clean it out and coat the wall with compounts and paint it green.

I need to find that paticular paint brand but I wann see if this will work decent first.
 
OK i did it. works OK on still shot

but Im gonna test video next.. i will post a link too when im done.


Creating the frame

gs1.jpg


Draping the Green Frabric

gs2.jpg



Didnt want to get dirt on fabric during stapling processing.


gs3.jpg



Glue will be added to center where both fabrics meet and staples removed.


gs4.jpg



Finishing off other half while using feet to stretch!


gs5.jpg



Stapled off extra fabric on backside and center removed all the center staples. side staples wont be seen.


gs6.jpg



Stapled picture hanger wire


gs7.jpg



there are some light patterns in the fabrice I noticed after i hung it up. but the chroma doesnt seem to pick it up much.

gs8.jpg



Testing out the first shot of a city I noticed I forgot to change the resolution to match exactly greenscreen. also I notice I stood to close to screen, you can see some shadowing. but most of the outline is actually a weird stich on my shirt

gs9.jpg



Me in Bagdhad


g1.jpg



WTC


g2.jpg
 
PS.. didnt mean to be insensitive with WTC or War shot.

They didnt come out that great anyways without proper shadowing.

but it was just a test.
 
not really. I guess it looked silly.

Someone threatened to place :Wanted dead or alive" on there but he's just a butthead from another board.


I wonder how long it will take before an independant or big block buster studio is gonna make the first 9/11 movie.


My Grand dad was in Pearl Harbor when it was bombed and so was my father who was 6 years old at the time with his 10 year old brother watching them fly in while they were playing on the hillside.


Hollywood was making films several months later. Trust me, Im not trying to make anyone feel bad but I would like to see a movie made in which Maybe it wasnt Al Queda behind this.


Hmmmmmm Good plot brewing up! Conspiracy film. Oh Wait, this is America, Someone might end up in jail for tax fraud or some other crazy thing they never did.
 
Wow, i dont know if it was a mistake but I got 5 stars on this thread. I feel like a kid in school who just got awarded with a gold star :D

Thanks, whoever you.
 
Threads that contain piccies/walkthroughs on how to do/build something deserve 5 stars, sure!

smiley_learn.gif
All members can rate threads, btw.
 
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