Any tips on writing a script with only a few pages of dialogue? In the vein of "Only God Forgives" or " The Samurai".
Thanks in advance,
M
Thanks in advance,
M
Coppola basically said to Murch: "What are we missing which we could be taking advantage of?". The result was that Murch effectively edited the script, even to the point of writing a completely new scene, and the film was thoroughly sound designed by an actual Sound Designer.
Here, IMHO, we start to get to the heart of it. Yes, the best sound design work is only available to those with very substantial budgets but isn't this also true of all the other film roles/crafts as well? That doesn't stop serious no/lo budget filmmakers from learning and trying to be DOPs, Picture Editors, Screenwriters, etc., or collaborating with other amateurs who fulfil those roles rather than just ignoring the picture editing or not having anyone fulfil the role of DOP. But this does often seem to be the case as far as sound design is concerned.
I think here is where we need to make the distinction between the indie and amateur hobbyist types of filmmaker. Hobbyists make films for their own enjoyment ... because they enjoy filmmaking. However, no one enjoys every single aspect of filmmaking! An individual hobbyist may primarily enjoy being a camera operator or directing the actors' performances or some other role. It's generally the production phase that hobbyists seem to enjoy the most and therefore that is where the majority of their effort goes; either directly in the production phase itself or geared/aimed towards the production phase. IE., Pre-Production is minimised as much as possible and limited to the planning of the design and logistics necessary for the production phase to occur. Post-prod also tends to be minimised and is essentially the process of "showing off" the results of production phase to it's best advantage. All this is of course fine, I've got no objection at all to hobbyist filmmakers and it would hardly be a hobby if one had to spend almost all of one's time engaged in aspects of filmmaking which were not interesting or enjoyable. A problem arises though when experienced serious hobbyists want to differentiate themselves from the newbies or less serious hobbyists (and/or monetise their film) and instead call themselves indie filmmakers! I frequently hear the serious hobbyist/no budget filmmaking mantra of "we do the best we can with what we've got" but this is a self deceiving lie or at least a lie of omission. It's a lie because in practise "the best we can" is not actually "the best we can do" but the best we are prepared or willing to do! Or to put it another way, "what we've got" is limited not only by financial resources but by a lack of interest or desire in the detailed design, planning and implementation of ALL the film crafts, either individually or in combination. To make this mantra true rather than just hyperbole, we need to be asking exactly the same question that Coppola asked of Murch!
It would of course depend on the filmmaker and the sound designer. Baring in mind that at the amateur, student, grad and even semi/low pro level, hardly any of those offering their services as "sound designer" actually have any knowledge or experience of designing film for sound. At the very low budget level, almost regardless of audio knowledge/experience one would have to think in terms of the "sound designer" as virtually a complete sound design newbie. So, there is certainly a lot of potential for foul-ups, for things not to work in practise how they were envisioned and the film to suffer. On the other hand, apart from maybe the odd rare or specific occasion, the actors' performances and the visuals in general have no opportunity to collaborate with sound and the sound editor/mixer very limited opportunity to aid the pace, flow and emotional response of the film, all of which leads directly to the usual public response to low budget indies as boring and uninvolving. As someone involved in the professional filmmaking industry, "boring and uninvolving" is THE cardinal filmmaking sin and I'd rather take the risk of fouling up the film by trying to avoid this sin than playing it safe and virtually guarantee committing it!
Thank you for your contributions and interest in this topic, MiniJamesW. You're off topic. Please repost your comments in the appropriate forum: Post Production or Music in Film. This forum is about the How-To of screenwriting. In those other two forums you will find others that share your interest and where it will be on topic. While I agree with the importance of sound in film and fully integrate that into screenwriting and production, it's not relevant here without concrete examples of how it would be written into a script. Most screenwriters do think in terms of sight and sound but there are restrictions in what can go inside a spec script. A shooting script is often different in that music licensing and sound effects have already been cleared by the producer and director. This is the wrong forum to discuss sound directors. You'll get more mileage in a forum that is devoted to sound and music in movies--the forums mentioned above. Cheers.
Please repost your comments in the appropriate forum: Post Production or Music in Film.
This is the wrong forum to discuss sound directors.
While I agree with the importance of sound in film and fully integrate that into screenwriting and production, it's not relevant here without concrete examples of how it would be written into a script.
Talk about the script. Show me a script. Tell me how you would work with a screenwriter as a sound director. You haven't done that. You keep talking about the Sound Director working with the director or producer. THAT IS IRRELEVANT TO WRITING A SCRIPT. And as your nickname says "AudioPOSTexpert" you're most often called in after the fact. You've not contributed an iota to how to put sound or music into a script. Show me a script or take the discussion about sound directors to an appropriate forum about music and sound.How is a discussion on how a script is written and a film developed/pre-produced appropriate to a post-production or music forum?
INT. DOUG'S APARTMENT - DAY
Rachel walks through stunned as she looks at the pictures
of Doug and Jack on the wall--laughing at the beach, in
football jerseys, standing beside a busty young woman in
a string bikini.
Jack walks into the living room and freezes. Rachel stares
at him with hot, angry tears.
RACHEL
You weren't going to tell me?
Jack moves towards her, hesitates, then reaches out but -
she pulls away.
JACK
Would it have made a difference?
Rachel slaps him hard. He doesn't turn back to face her
immediately.
JACK
He didn't want you to know. He -
RACHEL
I'm pregnant with his baby! Now I -
Rachel bursts into tears. Jack moves to console her and
she tears away.
RACHEL
Don't touch me. Just get out.
Jack nods and walks past with his head hanging.
The door closes.
Rachel stands, clutching her chest, and looks out the
window.
Telling me about the importance of a sound director is about as relevant as the telling me the importance of the "dolly grip" or the "focus puller on camera 1".
However, in terms of limited dialogue, the visual imagery needs to carry the story. David Mamet stresses that with all of his writers. And one test I use with how well a scene works, is to remove all the dialogue and see if the description/action statements convey the relevant story of the scene.
All writers think about sound but that's often out of our hands. ...
We think about it but it's not relevant to our part of the production process.
Are music and sound important in a movie? Yes. Should directors give it more attention when planning films? Probably. Does it impact the way the writer writes? Not so much.
I'm not allowed to write "Weeping violins set a somber tone as Jack looks back at Rachel's dead body." All I get to write is "Jack fights back a tear as he looks back at Rachel's dead body."
You're just another part of the production crew helping to realize the director's vision.
Have you ever written a script? Maybe that's where you need to start. Don't go pontificating in areas which you have no idea.
As for the OP's original question, did you provide any tips?
Here's a fragment, demonstrate: ...
For large films, it's often not even the same script which was written by the screenwriter but one that's been doctored. So which screenwriter are you speaking to?
While your general points about the flushings of the toilet in an apartment were interesting if I were filming it, that's not a detail you would ever include in a script unless it was directly relevant to the plot's atmosphere (a comedy?). In which case, most writers would include it. We have 90-110 pages to put in the details to allow others to make the movie. Most shoots I've been on, we're busy trying to eliminate stray sounds that distract from scenes. If we need a sound, we capture it separately and it's added in post.No, I have never written a script and no, that's not where I need to start, I'm a sound designer not a screenwriter. Most professional DOPs may never have written a script or wanted to (and that's not where they need to start either!), therefore any discussion on visual imagery has no place in a screenwriting forum ... correct?
While your general points about the flushings of the toilet in an apartment were interesting if I were filming it, that's not a detail you would ever include in a script unless it was directly relevant to the plot's atmosphere (a comedy?).
Most shoots I've been on, we're busy trying to eliminate stray sounds that distract from scenes. If we need a sound, we capture it separately and it's added in post. ...
I would hope you've at least held a boom pole or worked a mixer. You know the difficulties of working with lavaliers and various sound set ups in live production. So you're right, with a big budget and access to a sound controlled environment, you can do wonderful things.
That's not the reality for most independent producers and film makers. And it is certainly not a scriptwriting issue.
As I suspected, outside of your audio expertise, you've never been involved in the entire process--writing, shooting, directing, acting, sound, lighting, production. Since you've never written a script, I'm sure you've never held a camera.
Most of the DPs I've worked with are very savvy about screenwriting ... A DP knows how to use the script to tell a visual story. ... The fragment would suggest to me ways of framing the shots and camera motions. ... And you're right, a screenwriter telling a DP how to frame a shot--with the exception of the shooting script--is not appropriate in a spec script unless the writer is also the director.
My advice to new writers is the same I gave to you.
I advise them to get involved on the set--help with the lighting and sound, take an acting class, learn to frame shots. That experience translates into a more profound appreciation of the film making process and better scripts.
My role as a team player is to let other talented professionals--art director, sound designer, DP, actors and director-- do their jobs ...
Screenwriting is an art and craft that draws upon all the senses.
As a writer/director, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and provide you an example. You were unable to demonstrate with the script excerpt.
Further discussion is pointless. Thank you for your thoughts.