My take on The Matrix Sequals

LOGAN L Productions

LOGAN L Productions

Alright. I know this isn't technically "Indie" talk...but it is movie talk, so here it goes:

First of all, I love The Matrix. I think it is one of the most perfect movies ever made...this post is about the sequals.

Now, I loved Reloaded and Revolutions when I first saw it...but I kept hearing and reading people talk about how much they sucked. I would admit they were far from the first movie, but they were still great.

Well, I recently watched both movies again, and I realized something that I didn't notice before: the dialogue SUCKS!!!

Everything else in those movies are right on...the stories, sub-plots, action..but lines like "I can't let you die...I love you too damn much" are just...stupid. Here are some more examples of cheesy ass lines:

Trinity: "I told (the french guy) that I'd do anything for you...you know what's changed?"

Neo: "No."

Trinity: "Nothing."


Niobi while in Morpheus' arms: "Neo. Wherever you are...thankyou"


...and that stupid kid screaming "the war's over!!!" at the end of Revolutions made me feel...bad.

There are more quotes, but I don't remember them all.

Your thoughts?
 
LOGAN L Productions said:
Well, I recently watched both movies again, and I realized something that I didn't notice before: the dialogue SUCKS!!!
Click to expand...
Add some of those to "Tired, cliched scripts must include these lines:"

:D
 
The first one had it's fair share of cheesy lines as well. Like: "Don't give me that juris-my-dick-tion crap." and "Believe it or not you son of a bitch, you're still gonna burn!" I wasn't too worried about the dialogue in any of the movies, cause it's not gonna be believable dialogue because it's not a believable world, same as the Star Wars movies. The failure of the second two was the overbearing story. The first one had a healthy mix of fun vs. drama, the second two seemed to be all about the drama.

And I can't believe it took you two viewings to catch those horrible lines.

Poke
 
Poke: You may have thought those two lines were cheesy (I don't think they were that bad), but in the sequals...every other line seems to be over the top.

You're right, it's an over the top movie, but sometimes subtlety is more powerful than...trying too hard.

And...yeah it really did take me a few viewings before I noticed how rampant the bad dialogue was...although, when I saw reloaded in theater, I thought that whole Neo bringing Trinity to life thing was dumb and unnecessary...and I remember thinking some parts of the highway sequence were dumb too.

I actually like Empire as much as A New Hope. I thought is was an absolutely awesome movie with some really creative twists, etc.

Dumb things (unless they're meant to be funny) are my pet peve in movies. That's why I HATE many James Bond movies, comic book movies, and most horror movies.
 
I really liked the first Matrix movie, but disliked the sequels. I think they were just over blown imitations of the first movie and diluted the power of the first movie. You could say I hated "Reloaded" and thought "Revolutions" was just ok. "Reloaded" was a filler movie. Yes it has some kick-ass effects, but did it add anything to the trilogy except for the Architect? "Revolutions" added a war aspect and I liked the ending, but I would have been just as happy with only the original.

I will say the trilogy has brought up some interesting discussions. Here's my question, "Is Zion just another Matrix, which would make the Matrix a matrix inside a matrix?"

Scott
 
I personally liked all 3 movies. The Matrix was written to be a stand alone movie with so that if the movie didn't do that well a sequel wouldn't have been needed for closure. Reloaded was needed to fill in the blanks since the story was so well though out and detailed it required explanation. Without it would you have had any clue what was going on in Revolutions. I think you need to look at Reloaded and Revolutions as one film, one long film that you would need like a half a day to watch.


I would have to say No, Zion is not another Matrix. I know the whole then how can Neo do what he did. I think of it this why as humans we use less then 10% of our brains; parts of our brain are thought to control telekinetic powers. I think his brain functions were modified slightly by touching the source which gave him special abilities. I mean the entire movie is based on considering your brain as a computer so he went wireless.
 
I though reloaded didnt take the series where i wanted it to go, but it still had potential to be a great trilogy, but oh man....once Revolutions hit....they slaughtered the trilogy....aside from the dialogue....the way they ended it sucked so bad, and the dialogue....Im sorry wachoswki(sp) brothers but you ruined your legend/trilogy.

Oh and whats up with the rumors of one of the wachowskies(sp) getting a sex change?
 
I wasn't really a fan of any of the 3 movies. The first one was just okay, but not worth all the hype. Just saw the 3rd one again (thank you netflix) and it was still bad, just not as bad as I remember.

My opinion? The Wachowski brothers went for a Kubrick approach of leaving a lot up tyot he viewer and not flat out telling you expositionally what happened and what certainthings meant. Sadly they are NOT Kurick and it was not made clear what the point was and how certain things happened or why.

I still have no clue how Agent Smith came back or the how/why he replicated. It's never sufficiently explained and it's supposedly a lynchpin to the whole storyline of ... everything.

Lesson learned... when they were limited with budget constraints they pulled off what most people (myself EXCLUDED) a masterpiece by making the most out of resources & FX that they had and developed. When given carte blanche and total freedom and practically unrestriced budget to make the sequels any way they wanted... the choked on it. They did what George Lucas did inside of 4 years as poopsed to the 20+ George did. Similarly, when George had to comprise for the technology and other people, the original trilogy was more what people wanted. When he is not restricted by budget or interference, people seem less interested in the final product.

Necessity is the mother of invention.
 
Those are good points, Ross. It does seem like the Matrix sequals are too over the top at points...just to be over the top...not to advance the plot. The same problems plagued Phantom Menace.

Infact...now that I think about it, Episode II and the Matrix sequals have many of the exact same problems...bad dialogue being the worst in both.
 
I appreciate The Matrix for a number of reasons, not the least of which is its entertainment value. Having seen the previews for Reloaded and Revolutions, I decided to skip them entirely.

Dialogue in The Matrix worked for me. If taken out of context, most of Morpheus' lines sound absurd. The entire sequence where he explains the matrix to Neo, for instance, sounds like a cross between a marketing brochure and a history book. In context (and owing a lot to L.F.'s acting) it builds the story effectively.

Anyway, The Matrix was notable for a couple of other reasons. First, I think it provided a huge boost to the home DVD player market. At a time when most households were considering buying a DVD player (and they weren't all that cheap at the time), a huge number of people bought a player just to see The Matrix. Ask around - I bet you'll find lots of folks who'll say The Matrix was their first DVD.

Second, the SFX brought a major shift to the use of physics-defying sequences in "action" movies. Before The Matrix, watching people defy the laws of physics was limited to martial arts movies and it was a testament to the physical skills of people like Jackie Chan. Post-Matrix, it's almost a given that characters can fly, leap tall buildings in a single bound, etc. Even when it's nothing more than "eye candy" and doesn't fit the plot. (Okay, I'm done ranting.)
 
Good storytelling by the Wachowski's can be seen in the ANIMATRIX set of short stories. The origins of the whole story in THE SECOND RENAISSANCE (available for free online at www.theanimatrix.com) is example enough. Of course these were COLLABORATIONS with other storytellers (in this case anime artists).

Sometimes total autonomy can kill creativity rather than advance it. Another lesson learned - never close yourself off from other creative minds.
 
Hmm,
I honestly cant actually quite figure out WHY the second and third matrix movies werent up to scratch. Same film-makers, same actors, same concept.
But when your really honest, for $300,000,000 they are just not that impressive - although they are quite passable in quality, for instance if youve never heard of it and you were up late one night and caught it on some cheap TV channel then you'd think ''wow, bloody hell this is amazing !''.

I think its all about hype and expectations, if the wachowskis had managed to keep the project under wraps as they had sincerely wished to, then i think these movies would have had a much better critical receival - but a much worse box office receival. In the end they have to do what the studio prefer, and that is ALWAYS to make money and market the hell out of it.
I saw the first matrix on video in a friends house when I was 11 years old - and I was quite simply blown away by it. If i had spent the previous six months before then watching trailers and interviews for the film and promo-posters - and if I had seen all the best effects shots before id seen the film, it would have been ruined for me.

Being a part of the younger generation, I have had the same experience with many of 'the best films ever made'. Adults and film experts drone on and on about The Godfather movies, citizen kane, seven samurai and so much and so intensely that when i come to see them i am quite simply underwhelmed and borded by this so called 'groundbreaking' movie that my brain was expecting to literally enlighten my body and soul and teach me the secrets of the universe because it so grand.
Luckily I caught films like Spartacus, 12 Angry Men, Lawrence Of Arabia and To Kill A Mockingbird with little or no hype preceeding them, making them much more exciting, unpredictable and all-round memorable viewing.

The first Matrix had NOTHING for it when it was released, it was a serious risk being taken by Warner Bros and they didnt even show that any impressive effects shots in the trailer.
It truly tests a film when it can pull through a bad release, then recoup and treble the amount it cost to make.
Thats because the first Matrix was a GOOD film.

Anyway i think ive talked enough ! :)

I may have repeated myself once or twice but thats just how i am. The point i am trying to make is not to get your hopes up to high for any movie, as ''on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everything drops to zero'', and that includes enthusiasm and anticipation !

:):):):):):):):) But dont get depressed :):):):):):):)
 
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