My lense will not focus for an extreme close up shot,

H

harmonica44

If I want to shoot a person or object extremely close the lens cannot focus that close. I have a 50mm. I have tried different aperture settings from f4 to f22 and it still will not focus close up. By close up I mean as close up as 8 seconds into this video example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kD54-q1uFM

Any thought on this how to get a lens to focus that close? Thanks.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Apparently with a 50mm prime, it's impossible.
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Yup.
Math's all wrong.


I just went through some of my camera test shots and found what may work for your 18-55mm zoom lens.
My camera has a 6.3 - 63 mm f/1.8 - 2.5 lens, which is comparable to a 38-380mm 35mm camera equivalent coverage.
At my camera's 10x (63mm = 380MM for 35mm camera equivalent) I could get a decent image of what you're looking for at 180cm out from the sensor & f2.5. Gives a narrow DOF on a 25-35cm wide image.

Ur gonna need a bigger lens, skip. ;)

headline_RoyScheider.jpg



harmonica44 said:
I also tried a 75-300mm at different distances, but that was actually has less focus on close up shots, than the 50mm, and was just worse.
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Try that lens again maxed all the way out to 300mm w/ the biggest aperture it can crank out.
Plop ur biscuits down about 1.5m out.
Do some new tests until you get it.

You may have to settle for a less narrow DOF, tighten down that aperture (giving a deeper DOF), and get closer to the forward edge of that DOF to fill up more of the screen.
 
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yeah I know. It's just I want a prime cause of lighting. The location does not have outlets to light the scene, and they will not allow generators cause it's an outdoor public location and they do not approve of the noise so late at night, in a quiet area.

so I thought a prime could fix it, but the longer lens I have is not one. And denoising may be not be an acceptable quality with a long lens.
 
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harmonica44 said:
yeah I know. It's just I want a prime cause of lighting.
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Want in one hand, spit in the other. See which fills up first. :)

GL w/ a solution.



Could you get that shot in a different location with ONLY the face and no background, so no background would be seen in that shot? Then just edit it in and color correct/grade it to match.
Is it just a nice simple static close up shot?
It's not a zoom/dolly in like in the example, right? Jeez! That'd be a PITA! :lol:
 
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I was thinking of doing the zoom but not sure yet. It would be nice to have the option, and their was another scene I wanted to zoom in, in one shot. Not sure if I want that scene to be night or not though, yet. Some parts of the script are subject to change.

I guess if I don't use the zoom, I will just make sure the close up lighting matches. If I decide I want the zoom at night for the other scene, can I do it at night, then shoot the rest with primes, and make it all match?
 
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Unlike depth of field, there's no hard and fast rule for calculating the minimum focusing distance or maximum magnification of a lens. Nor does choosing a lens with a longer focal length necessarily improve your ability to fill the frame with a subject as you might expect.

Take a look at Canon's lens specification chart. The most useful column to you is the maximum magnification - you should be looking for a larger number than your current lens. Any lens with a maximum magnification of one or more is known as a macro lens.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Apparently with a 50mm prime, it's impossible.
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My 50mm Canon (FD) has a close focus of ~2' - which on my GH2* produces a frame** where you can see slight slivers of background on either side of a person's head, and from about the middle of the forehead to just below the bridge of the nose.

So close, but not as close as you are looking to get. What kind of phone do you have? If you happen to have something Android or iOS I highly recommend you get a director's viewfinder like one of these:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/artemis-directors-viewfinder/id324917457?mt=8

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/panascout/id361799671?mt=8

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.SRLFilmTools&hl=en

(I have that one, pretty good for the price)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/...xLDEsImNvbS5jaGVtaWNhbHdlZGRpbmcuYXJ0ZW1pcyJd

(I may switch to Artemis now that an android version is available. Maybe.)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/...wsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5kaXN0YW50Ymx1ZS5jYWRyYWdlIl0.


The point is that you'll be able to figure out how to create a given frame. No, it won't tell you anything about focus, but what it will tell you is what lens/distance combinations give you the field of view you are seeking and then using that list of possible combinations you can determine which one gives you acceptable (or even possible) focus.


Notes:

* - 50mm on a GH2 is (effectively, actually less, but let's not confuse the issue) similar to a 100mm on a FF camera like a 5D. For your t#i which is an APS-C it would be more similar to an 78-85 or so (don't feel like doing the math and don't think it really would help the discussion) which may not have a near enough focus distance.

** - I just held my camera out in front of my face. YMMV on how much face ends up in frame with that combo. ;)
 
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harmonica44 said:
yeah I know. It's just I want a prime cause of lighting. The location does not have outlets to light the scene, and they will not allow generators cause it's an outdoor public location and they do not approve of the noise so late at night, in a quiet area.

so I thought a prime could fix it, but the longer lens I have is not one. And denoising may be not be an acceptable quality with a long lens.
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Outdoor location+no lights= use your car's headlights. Seriously. It helps immensely when you've either got no money for lights, or just no way to set up lights. You can use different techniques to diffuse the light if its too harsh for you.
 
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Okay thanks for this shot, I will try that. I will light the scene so that the car headlights are in a certain part of the area, so when the actors get to that area, they will be in the right spot for that shot. Just so long as it doesn't look obvious.

Now it comes to doing a zoom shot, I was thinking of color grading so you cannot see the aperture change, since the lens is not a fixed aperture. I did a test and was able to make the shot look the same, but you can see the shot change. A guy who is also into filmmaking says that some indie filmmakers are modifying their DSLR lenses so that the aperture is fixed. I could not find any tutorials on that though, so is that do-able?
 
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harmonica44 said:
A guy who is also into filmmaking says that some indie filmmakers are modifying their DSLR lenses so that the aperture is fixed. I could not find any tutorials on that though, so is that do-able?
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Where do you find these people?! No, it is definitely not do-able.

If you really must have a zoom shot, why not rent a constant aperture lens for a few days?

Remember that the aperture changing affects not only the exposure but the size and shape of the bokeh (the quality of the blur in the background), something not easily correctable in post.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I could not find any tutorials on that though, so is that do-able?
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Is your name Mathew Duclos?

No, it isn't?

Then no, no way in hell you are ever successfully modifying a lens in a fashion that requires disassembling one and effectively completely rehousing it.

As for the specific mod you are referring to - even if it could be done I doubt anyone would consider the glass inside a cheap kit lens to be worth the cost/effort.

Come on dude. I try to give you the benefit of the doubt, but CC to correct for a changing aperture during a zoom? Can I make my cheap zoom into one that performs like one that is orders of magnitude more expensive? Seriously. Come on guy.

Besides, when you try to move into the character like that - either with a zoom or with a push in - your biggest problem is going to be finding someone who can execute that focus pull without buzzing the actor.

You'd be better off skipping the move and doing a cut to the closer composition.
 
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David.rhsc said:
harmonica44 said:
I could not find any tutorials on that though, so is that do-able?
Click to expand...
Is your name Mathew Duclos?

No, it isn't?

Then no, no way in hell you are ever successfully modifying a lens in a fashion that requires disassembling one and effectively completely rehousing it.
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H! Say "Nay!" to the naysayers!
You can do it!

128658-back_to_the_future_car_super.jpg
:lol:

It CAN be done.
But, considering the fifty-eight thousand questions you've asked here, the real question is can YOU do it?! :)
 
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rayw said:
H! Say "Nay!" to the naysayers!
It CAN be done.
But, considering the fifty-eight thousand questions you've asked here, the real question is can YOU do it?! :)
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Note my wording. ;)

I guarantee you that h44's friend is talking about de-clicking apertures, not making variable aperture zoom lenses into fixed ones. That's a major modification that wouldn't be worth the expense given the cheap glass and components used in these kit lenses. :D
 
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Yeah!
But COULLLLLLLLD H do it?!




Seriously, H.
Eff me. Just get that 300mm lens and shoot a non-zooming shot in a well lit area elsewhere, 1.5-2m out, aperture wide open, color correct then grade, insert in editing, done. Miller time.
Infinitely less expensive in time and materials.
Seriously.

Molehill.
Not mountain.
 
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H44 now wants to open up a lens? dear god... next week he will want to dissect eagles eyes and replace them with Lenses so that he can get a birds eye view.

H44 in a nice way, before you post another question that puts me in a position doubting the intelligence of the human race, please can you actually just film something like an actual scene, thats had decent audio, decent scenery, decent acting, decent colour preset if anything jesus christ man just give me something!

how is it possible after all those posts you call yourself a filmmaker? how do i do this, how do i do that, can i fly? why not? when can i? is it possible? is this strange? am i insane? etc etc

im surprised that no director/crew have described you as a child that just says why to everything you say...

or on the other hand.. you are not actually who you say you are and that you are a moderator of this forum using this account to ask countless questions so basic that someone would google it to lead to this site therefore you created the annoying H44 ....

its just getting to fishy, your either not cut out for this business or your a fake which is it?
 
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8salacious9 said:
or on the other hand.. you are not actually who you say you are and that you are a moderator of this forum using this account to ask countless questions so basic that someone would google it to lead to this site therefore you created the annoying H44 ....
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Not me... good side benefit, but not me. Some folks aren't go for it people... I still feel they can learn, it just takes more effort on the educator's part. Over half of the education dynamic is the want on the part of the student... there's a want here. I'll keep answering.
 
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Well I want to make a movie, but actors and crew say I am not ready. So they do not want to make one with me as director until I am, and that's what they told me. So I am trying to learn as much as I can in order to be ready, in order to get them to make a movie.
 
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Why do you give a shit about what 'your' crew says .

Write a script for a short film, get bunch of friends and shoot it. Do it 100 times . You will fail - yes . ut eventually you will achieve your goal .


Don't post 4 second shaky videos to ask if your color grading is good or not , post a 5 minute short film and ask people to critique it , then do it again and again untill you become great at what you're doing .
 
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harmonica44 said:
Because my friends cannot memorize lines or even act that well, and don't want to stay on set long enough, and are just not committed to the task. I have tried.
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Get some friends that can act and memorize lines then. Or make a film with no dialogue. Get off the internet and film something. Tell your "crew" and "actors" what you need from them and what you want them to do. Or get other people. I was working on a short film with an uncooperative actor, and I invited him over, and told him what he was doing, and what I need him to do. I told him if he does not want to cooperate, and work with me, I can find another actor and reshoot. I finished the film, and all went well. Practice! Practice! Practice! Make a short film. Make another. Make another. Make another...

Go to the link below.

http://i.qkme.me/1fv8.jpg
 
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