loglines wtf

[kgasser2]

I don't understand the fascination with loglines, or why everyone finds it so important. I know that in writing screenplays it is important to know your theme or 'message' (if you want to call it that) or the basic transformation the characters are making, but from what I can tell (which isnt much) its just a one or two sentance description of the STORY.

Maybe it comes down to whether you care more about the story or the theme, but I would think the logline is just an easy thing to say to your friends when they as what your movie is about, without really letting them what kind (i don't mean genre) of film it is.

I guess it could be benefitial to understand your logline, but is it necessary to spend so much time making it perfect? Isn't it more important to define the theme, so you know what it is you're trying to say?

The theme is the essence of the story.

the logline is a story summary.

I suppose this us up to debate. Am I wrong? (NO, Walter, you're not wrong. You're just an ASSHOLE)

 

[kgasser2]

It doesn't matter if you are selling it or not. There are at least 2 other places where your logline will matter.

1) When someone is deciding whether or not to see your movie

I feel like I'm hawking copies of Save the Cat on here, but Snyder really nailed this subject. Imagine I tell my girlfriend that I want to see a movie, and she says "what's it about?". If I give her a vague 5 minute overview of the film "Well these 2 people get a camera... theres this monster in their hall closet... no one famous is in it, but its supposed to be good", she's not going to be interested. As opposed to "Paranormal Activity is a horror mocumentary about a demon haunting a young couple" (I chose the film to exemplify what a high concept can do to off set a low budget).

2) When you put together a press kit for festivals

If you don't have a logline and 3 seperate synopsis you are much more likely to end up in the no pile because you will be deemed unprofessional. It not seem fair, but it's true.

1) i have never ever ever in my entire life considered (or even seen) the logline before seeing a picture. the only loglines i've ever seen are people on this forum saying 'does this sound like a good logline?" which is what drove me to start this thread.

 

[Cracker Funk]

it's funny you mention essay writing, because i never used outlines or thesis statements. i pretty much just made shit up as i went along. Which is sort of how i go about developing a story (before the actual writing of the screenplay)

Try writing a 30-page essay, without using an outline. Tell me how that works out for you.

Ditto for a feature-length screenplay.

You can bullshit your way through shorter projects, but the lengthy ones require organization to be effective. There might be a rare exception to this rule, but it would be very rare.

 

[directorik]

directorK, how does starting with a logline really benefit your project? I feel like, if i were to come up with a bitchin logline, then you have to squeeze your movie into those paramaters. But if you start with an image, a character, everything will grow from that. My project now started with an image, it led me to discover some interesting things i didn't expect, and that original image probably wont even be in the film now. But it gave me a mood, a glimpse of a character and a lifestyle.

Sure, once you start working on your story you could change your logline if it's necessary, but then what's the point in working so hard on one in the first place.

I see loglines as a restraint, and an image as inspiration.

Because I write to sell.

I set parameters before I write a word because I know that I have
to squeeze my story into them. To me all script writing is
restraint. If I write for TV I have to fall within very specific
parameters. If I write for a low budget producer I have to fall
within very specific parameters. If I’m doing a rewrite I’ve been
hired to write within very specific parameters. If I’m writing a
script to shoot myself I have to fall within very specific
parameters.

I am not and have never been a “creative” writer. I don’t write
because of inspiration, I don’t write because I have a need to
communicate, I don’t write because I must. I write as a means to
an end. I love telling stories and I have chosen scripts rather
than novels to do that. And the business dictates what stories I
can tell and how I tell them.

If I cannot succulently tell my story in a logline, I will not
write it.

In a way I envy you. You are free to write how you want, when
you want and about whatever your imagination wants.

1) i have never ever ever in my entire life considered (or even seen) the logline before seeing a picture.

I’ll bet you’ve done it more than you think. Sure, you don’t read
a "logline" before you decide on what movie to watch, but I bet you
have scanned the one or two sentence descriptions on Netflix,
found one you thought had promise and chosen that movie over one
that didn’t sound as interesting. Or looked quickly at the back of
a DVD box in the rental store and not read the entire synopsis,
but only glanced at the first one or two sentences and put it down
because it didn’t interest you.

I’m not sure if you’ve ever been to a film festival, but most
program three or four movies in different theaters at the same
time. How would you decide which movie to see quickly? You don’t
have time to research and there are no reviews or word of mouth to
consider - you’ve got to make a fairly quick decision. A good one
or two sentence pitch will help you make that decision. And that
one or two sentence pitch in the program is called the logline.

 

[Cracker Funk]

There's another thread going, in which the subject of a thesis statement has come up:

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=26947

Honestly, I see the logline the exact same way I see the thesis statement. Sure, there's no such thing as a 5 paragraph movie, but the point remains the same that you need to be able to really focus, concisely, what this movie is about. And when you're writing a scene, that scene needs to say something about, or further the story of the logline. If you have a scene that has nothing to do with the logline, then what the heck is it doing there?

If "Dark Knight" is about Batman's transformation from city hero to a publicly-misunderstood vigilante, then every single scene in the movie needs to somehow tell that story, and move the plot along.

If "Lion King" is about a cub who must grow up to take his rightful place as King, and to clear his name and vanquish his evil uncle, then every single scene in the movie needs to tell a little bit of that story.

You can't effectively write a good screenplay if you don't know what it is about, and you don't know what it is about, if you don't have a solid logline.

 

[jeremy]

1) i have never ever ever in my entire life considered (or even seen) the logline before seeing a picture. the only loglines i've ever seen are people on this forum saying 'does this sound like a good logline?" which is what drove me to start this thread.

Turn on your TV. Pick any movie. Hit the info button on your remote. You'll get either a log line or a brief synopsis. This is how people decide what they want to watch.

People don't watch things unless they know what it's about in advance. That's why trailers, log lines, posters, and title all ideally describe what it's about.

 

[kgasser2]

Turn on your TV. Pick any movie. Hit the info button on your remote. You'll get either a log line or a brief synopsis. This is how people decide what they want to watch.

People don't watch things unless they know what it's about in advance. That's why trailers, log lines, posters, and title all ideally describe what it's about.

first thanks to directork for your response. i guess i have such a narrow tunnel about how i see filmmaking and how i want to persue it and why, i don't think about how or why other people do it. so in a way i really envy you also, because if someone hired me to write a screenplay for a specific idea, i couldnt do it. and that's probably why you can make a career in film/tv and i likely wont.

and in response to what i quoted, i stand corrected here. given that example, and directork's netflix example, i've read hundreds of loglines. Sure they're helpful to help you understand what the movie is about (vaguely, especially netflix descriptions!) they don't really tell you what the movie is going to BE. Which is why I usually don't bother. You can read the logline, synopsis, quotes, see trailers, and whatever else, but you won't really know what the movie IS until you see it. At least that's how it is for me.

I suppose my original question has been answered. Loglines are important for some people, they can help in the filmmaking process for some people, its just not for me. Thanks to everyone for the interesting conversation.

CUT. PRINT. CHECK THE GATE!

As we say, that's a wrap.

 

[polfilmblog]

"People don't watch things unless they know what it's about in advance."​

I guess I'm unpeople.

I hate summaries, synopses, and trailers that give away too much. I certainly don't want to know what it's about in advance. Why bother watching it then?

I guess a significant portion of the audience are sheeple who reject new and different concepts out of hand, and want to be certain not to experience any.

To "know" what it's about implies familiarity with it, and that it does not surprise the viewer with concepts unfamiliar to him.

As for loglines, I'm split on this issue. They often would not pique my interest at all, and had I read them would have opted NOT to watch the film. They have this knack of turning a magical experience into a trite, banal sentence.

On the other hand, the ability to communicate succinctly is part of the job description. Keeping the focus of the plot in one's mind helps you from running off on irrelevantt tangents.

Stating a theme, or stating your point in one word or a few words accomplishes this also.

 

[Alcove Audio]

I guess a significant portion of the audience are sheeple who reject new and different concepts out of hand, and want to be certain not to experience any.

Actually, I think this is relatively untrue. I want some idea of what I'm going to be watching if for no other reason than my mood at any given time. You know, like when I've had a really tough day the last thing I want to watch is something depressing; a good "mindless" bang-bang-shoot-em-up or a romantic comedy is just the ticket. I'll watch that dark, gritty film some other time when I want the intellectual stimulation.

As a parent, I need some idea if it's appropriate for an eight year old.

As filmmakers and those associated with filmmakers we are immersed in the filmmaking culture; whether you are aware of it or not you are the opposite of the "sheeple" as you so ungraciously call them; you are an elitist film "snob" from their perspective - you see no redeeming value in pure escapist entertainment which is what most audiences want. 98% of the folks out there are a customer buying a product; tag lines and brief synopsis' are just marketing tools.

It's the entertainment business; the purpose of a business is to make a profit; you make a profit by making a product your customers want to buy. The biggest problem that I see is that the investors are unwilling to take risks on the new, the different or the controversial. That is a different problem all together.

"You yunguns ain't got no durn perpsective!"

 

[Cracker Funk]

I hate summaries, synopses, and trailers that give away too much. I certainly don't want to know what it's about in advance. Why bother watching it then?​

Well, then I've got just the movie for you. You should see "A Serbian Film". Don't bother reading anything about it. It's awesome!















Teeheehee​

 

[kgasser2]

"People don't watch things unless they know what it's about in advance."​

I guess I'm unpeople.

I hate summaries, synopses, and trailers that give away too much. I certainly don't want to know what it's about in advance. Why bother watching it then?

I guess a significant portion of the audience are sheeple who reject new and different concepts out of hand, and want to be certain not to experience any.

To "know" what it's about implies familiarity with it, and that it does not surprise the viewer with concepts unfamiliar to him.

As for loglines, I'm split on this issue. They often would not pique my interest at all, and had I read them would have opted NOT to watch the film. They have this knack of turning a magical experience into a trite, banal sentence.

On the other hand, the ability to communicate succinctly is part of the job description. Keeping the focus of the plot in one's mind helps you from running off on irrelevantt tangents.

Stating a theme, or stating your point in one word or a few words accomplishes this also.

for the most part i agree with this

 

[directorik]

Sure they're helpful to help you understand what the movie is about (vaguely, especially netflix descriptions!) they don't really tell you what the movie is going to BE. Which is why I usually don't bother. You can read the logline, synopsis, quotes, see trailers, and whatever else, but you won't really know what the movie IS until you see it. At least that's how it is for me.

And a logline isn't meant to tell the reader what the
movie is about. It's meant only to promote interest.
When a studio reader or an agent has 1,000 submissions
a week that need to narrow their choices somehow. It
might not be "fair" but nothing is. It might not be the
best way to find the best script, but there are so many
out there a method has to be implemented.

Reading screenplay costs the producer, the prodCo and
the agent money. There is just no way any of them can
possibly afford to read every single script every single writer
submits. So a log line is like Netflix. You won't get EVERYTHING
from one, but you will get a sense of which scripts you want
to read first. You won't really know if it's a script you want to
option until you read the whole thing.

In a way, you are fortunate. You will never need to write one.

Me. I LOVE the challenge.

 

[Just Logan]

We need a like button. i want to like Rik's post.

 

[jeremy]

I hate summaries, synopses, and trailers that give away too much. I certainly don't want to know what it's about in advance. Why bother watching it then?

Because knowing what something is about and knowing how it unfolds are 2 different things. What criteria do you use to select a movie when you go to the theater? Does anyone go to a theater and just plop down $12 for whatever starts next?

To "know" what it's about implies familiarity with it, and that it does not surprise the viewer with concepts unfamiliar to him.

As for loglines, I'm split on this issue. They often would not pique my interest at all, and had I read them would have opted NOT to watch the film. They have this knack of turning a magical experience into a trite, banal sentence.

Exactly, it implies familiarity. That doens't mean you know what it contains. Fight Club is about a club of men that fight. If that doesn't appeal to you, you don't need to see the film. At the same time, if you assumed knowing that means you know the story, themes, concepts, you'd be mistaken.

There have been films that I have loved, and might not have seen if I had only read the log line. Up springs to mind. However, more often than not I can hit the nail on the head over whether I would like a movie or not based on the logline. Half of the time I know once I've heard title, genre, main character if I want to take this ride.

"Legally Blonde is a..." I'll pass.
"Inglorious Basterds is a war..." stop drilling you've hit oil.

I'm often shocked at how accurate this method is.

Stating a theme, or stating your point in one word or a few words accomplishes this also.

I disagree with this, uless I am misunderstanding you. If someone said "do you want to see a movie about America's obsession with beauty, the media, and violence" I'd be all in. I love all 3 of those themes. When they said "great, Miss Congeniality starts in a few minutes" I'd be very unhappy with my choice.

 

[hepabst]

After writing a number of shorts I wrote my first feature. I did not have a logline or an outline. I just started writing the idea I had in my head. Three months go by and I have a first draft. Sent it out and got feedback. Most said that it was all over the place, no conflict, lacked focus, boring, trash it. Turns out I wrote about 15 shorts and strung them together as a feature. I took everyones advise. Loglines where the biggest suggestion.

I'm currently writing my second feature. It took me 2 months to come up with a logline, 6 months to create an outline that stayed true to the logline and I'm currently writing page 14 of the script and checking everything I'm writing against the logline.

I tried to back track and write a logline for my first feature and the only thing I could come up with that was true to the script was "Big mess written by Herb".