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Let's see if I have this straight--Sound

S

Spine50

Hey guys,

I'm been searching the forums to find an answer to my question, but haven't come across quite what I'm looking for. I just got a t2i and I'm looking to buy some sound equipment for it (since I know the camera audio is crap in a bag). I've seen a lot of people talk about the Zoom H4n and getting a mixer. My first question is what exactly is the difference between a mixer and a digital recorder like the H4n? From what I've seen, the H4n has audio adjustment capabilities and xlr inputs--isn't that what a mixer is used for? And, just to make sure I got this right, if audio is not recorder through the camera, does that mean in post the editor will have to line the dialog up with the actors' mouths?

Thanks everyone!
 
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A mixer tells sound where to go.

A recorder, well, records and stores the information.

A dedicated mixer usually has relatively large physical volume controllers (pots or faders) and is able to do multiple routings - for example, sending the mics to individual tracks on a recorder (sometimes multiple recorders) and a specific mix to the camera (lavs track one, boomed mic track two) and a monitoring mix to for the director, etc. while the production sound mixer can switch between all if those as required.

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Dedicated audio recorders come from two to multiple audio tracks; laptops with the appropriate interfaces can be used as well.

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Yes, there are many units out there that combine the mixer and recorder. Professionals opt for modular systems; they may love the mic preamps in the mixer made by one company but prefer the AD/DA converters in the recorder of another. They also be much, much more flexibility.


The DR-100 (my preference for cheap recorders), H4n and similar units are all aimed at musicians and suffer from low volume level problems.

Yes, double system means that you will have to sync audio in post. You can use the camera audio as a guide, plus you should have visually and verbally slated each take and have kept copious video and audio logs. Syncing audio to film was the only way it could be done until the advent of video cameras.
 
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Ah, I get the difference now, thanks. Another question has popped up, though. If I have something like the DR-1oo or the H4n, will I need a mixer or can I just use one of those to get started? Also, at the risk of this being an obvious question, does the recorder actually store the suond, or would the recorder be hooked up to something like a mixer or a laptop? When I was researching the DR-100 and H4n, I didn't see anything about memory, so I figured the sound has to do some where.....
 
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You can use a recorder like the DR-100, etc. without the benefits of a mixer. They use SD cards to store the data. BTW, if you get one, use smaller sized (8 or 16 gigs) high quality cards; audio recorders tend to react aversely to larger storage sizes and cheap cards. At 24 bit/48 kHz you use 16.5 MB per stereo minute; an 8 gig SD card is plenty of time for a days shooting.

The benefits of a mixer are the ability to "ride" the knobs or faders; to raise or lower the volume in real time while the take is under way. For example, the two characters may be speaking softly to each other and a third character comes in screaming - a "one size fits all" volume does not exist in this circumstance. Some will tell you that a limiter will suppress volume spikes; that's true as far as it goes. A limiter is intended for momentary spikes, not to suppress seconds or longer of high volume.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
It's possible, I suppose; but it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to control each channel separately. They're very small and not really that smooth.
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I have one in my hands right now. One channel or both channels would be doable. Independent channels would require 2 hands - one to hold the outer wheel (R) from moving and the other to move the inner (L).
 
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