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Last Call - Feedback Request

Good evening all,

After a long bout of writer's block I finally started back on writing and I am wondering if you all will be kind enough to provide me some feedback on what I have so far.

I am writing a full-length murder/mystery set in Houston, TX that I am hoping that I can direct myself. Here is the link to the first 15 pages:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...lkY2UtMTFiMzQ4ZWQyZGFi&hl=en&authkey=COKBooAP

Please let me know what you think: too many actions lines, not enough/too much description, the characters seem flat, doesn't seem to be going anywhere, etc. The more, the better.

Thank you all so much!


Cheers,

Adam


*EDITED TO ADD A LOGLINE*

With the questions that I have been asked, I thought it would be easier and best to add a (hopefully good) logline:

A man’s life turns upside down when the body of his ex-girlfriend is found in a nearby bayou. As the last one to communicate with her and multiple people speaking against him in her defense, he must find piece together enough information from the previous night to prove to himself, and the police, that he didn’t kill her.
 
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This required a gmail account to view. Luckily I had one, so i'll give it a read, but maybe you should upload it to somewhere accessible by non gmail account holders.

I can recommend scribd.com.

Also, can I ask if you will be using this personally, trying to sell it, or offering it to friends? Or is it simply a writing exercise?
 
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I would cut certain lines from the action sequences, and concentrate on making it more of a pleasure to read; more like prose. Things like:

"she stumbles towards us"
"we see that she is"
"slowly bring the camera into focus on her hand"

All of these lines break up the story, and make the reader weary. Describe the action in such a way, that you suggest what you want the camera to see. Unless of course this is for self production, then you can write whatever you please.

I would avoid the POV shot so early on.

The telephone call: Instead of switching Male Voice to Remy, just have Remy from the start. Same with the female.

Again, enthusiastic usage of shot descriptions are a no-no in spec screenplays.

The use of POV from Remy is unecessary and restricts your creativity, which has resulted in clunky action.

"Christina" doesn't need to be in capitals when she is mentioned. Names only need to be capitalised in the situation of a character being introduced for the first time to the reader.

Instead of saying INSERT CU OF DEAD BODY, why not take the opportunity to describe the corpse?

The part where you move from inside to outside the slying saucer place - insert a new scene heading if they've moved outside. I also think this whole bar section could have worked well as a montage, as it seemed to jump around all over the place anyway.

Overall, I felt it was too disconnected/disjointed for me to really follow with anything but moderate attention. The actions and descriptions were drawn out. Try to be more economic in those areas. For example: "clothes from the night before thrown about". "From the night before..." is completely superfluous, irrelevant information. If clothes are strewn across the room, we'll assume they've been there for a while, and that they aren't there for the purpose of some crazy experiment by the character, that he's suddenly decided to conduct as we've come into his life.

It's hard to comment without having a final, complete script, but although you seem to have introduced our protagonist, it's still not clear what their goal is, who/what the antagonist is, or where any of this is going. I get a sense that it maybe about their relationship, but there was a noireish tone as well. By the end of these 15 pages, I needed to have seen some sort of routine, and a breaking of that routine, so sense where the story was going.

I hope you don't think i'm being too hard. I'm no screenwriting guru myself, but these are simply things I felt, as I read and completed the read. The opinions of others (probably more qualified than myself) may differ greatly, to your benefit.
 
I was actually going to respond to your previous message about googledocs when you wrote this response, so I will knock out both with this. I actually thought that anyone with the link would be able to view the document as opposed to just those with a google account. I don't know much about scribd and I will check it out, though I am guessing that I will need an account for this site as well?

Thank you for the read and the comments

I would cut certain lines from the action sequences, and concentrate on making it more of a pleasure to read; more like prose. Things like:

"she stumbles towards us"
"we see that she is"
"slowly bring the camera into focus on her hand"

All of these lines break up the story, and make the reader weary. Describe the action in such a way, that you suggest what you want the camera to see. Unless of course this is for self production, then you can write whatever you please.

Thank you for this - I guess I can insert these as footnotes on my working copy so they will be easier to take out as these are more or less my own notes as the way I see the scene playing out in my head as I write and how I want it to look if I direct it myself.

I would avoid the POV shot so early on.

This is something that I can't do. The POV of the characters play an very important part in the way that the story unfolds and I think it would be better to start of right off the bat with it as opposed to using it later.

The telephone call: Instead of switching Male Voice to Remy, just have Remy from the start. Same with the female.

I have this listed this way as there are multiple phone conversations throughout the screenplay between multiple parties and I thought it would be best to keep it simple before the intro of the phone conversation, though this portion was recently moved around (and back?) to this part of the screenplay.

"Christina" doesn't need to be in capitals when she is mentioned. Names only need to be capitalised in the situation of a character being introduced for the first time to the reader.

In a way she was introduced - she is the girl at the table with them when they first meet. Thank you for bringing this to my attention so I can try and make more clarifications of the friends they are with when they first meet.

Instead of saying INSERT CU OF DEAD BODY, why not take the opportunity to describe the corpse?

I actually go into detail in the next 10 or so pages about the dead body from the police and is why I don't go into it here. Though thank you for making me think of another way to do this scene!

The part where you move from inside to outside the slying saucer place - insert a new scene heading if they've moved outside. I also think this whole bar section could have worked well as a montage, as it seemed to jump around all over the place anyway.

Since this portion is part of his hazy recollection of the previous night, I thought that it would be fine to write this out as a flashback like this since the characters are really not making any of productive progress, as I thought montages were; they're just getting drunk. Can anyone clarify if there is a rule on the format of a scene like this?

Thank you for catching the exterior part - this is somthing that I totally missed.

Overall, I felt it was too disconnected/disjointed for me to really follow with anything but moderate attention. The actions and descriptions were drawn out. Try to be more economic in those areas. For example: "clothes from the night before thrown about". "From the night before..." is completely superfluous, irrelevant information. If clothes are strewn across the room, we'll assume they've been there for a while, and that they aren't there for the purpose of some crazy experiment by the character, that he's suddenly decided to conduct as we've come into his life.

Thank you - I know I get very wordy at times and I have a hard time recognizing some of the more obvious parts. Though I put this in there as worded to provide some sort of imagery in regards to the recent chaos in the otherwise non-chaotic room.

It's hard to comment without having a final, complete script, but although you seem to have introduced our protagonist, it's still not clear what their goal is, who/what the antagonist is, or where any of this is going. I get a sense that it maybe about their relationship, but there was a noireish tone as well. By the end of these 15 pages, I needed to have seen some sort of routine, and a breaking of that routine, so sense where the story was going.

A final script is what I am working on - these are the pages that I rewrote last week when I was able to finally get back in the swing of things (minus the changing of word tense and deletions of sometings I didn't like). I am guessing I need to cut more of what I added (the dream sequence) and/or move it to another section if I keep it, and add more of the other parts of the story. to make the 15 pages feel cleaner.

I hope you don't think i'm being too hard. I'm no screenwriting guru myself, but these are simply things I felt, as I read and completed the read. The opinions of others (probably more qualified than myself) may differ greatly, to your benefit.

Not at all - this is the kind of critique that I need. Other than pointing out some very easy items that I missed, you provided your opinion on how you felt when you read it which is exactly what I am needing to hear to better hone this, as well as my overall writing. Thank you once again for giving it a read and providing your opinion, I appreciate it very much.


Cheers,

Adam
 
After a long bout of writer's block I finally started back on writing and I am wondering if you all will be kind enough to provide me some feedback on what I have so far. I am writing a full-length murder/mystery set in Houston, TX that I am hoping that I can direct myself. Here is the link to the first 15 pages. ...

Please let me know what you think: too many actions lines, not enough/too much description, the characters seem flat, doesn't seem to be going anywhere, etc. The more, the better.
Please use CeltX or use a template that will provide proper formatting for the screenplay. The document is not properly formatted which makes it difficult to read. Please use Courier 12 pt font. Do not center everything. You should avoid italics. Your pages need to be numbered. Those four points will cause most readers to reject reading this after the first page no matter how compelling your story. Also, if you want to get backers or even quality actors, they will know the difference.

In your scene descriptions, include all the relevant details. You say "HOUSTON DOWNTOWN STREET". For me, Houston seems pretty flat or at city-wise fairly level. At the top of page "2", you say she fell down a large flight of stairs. How does a downtown street have a huge flight of stairs? After your slugline, detail the location enough that I, the reader, can understand the scene.
She makes her way along the deserted sidewalk. Just past the tenement is the entrance to the subway. She wipes tears from her eyes, stumbles, catches herself as she makes her way stairs leading to the tenement house. Along the buildings a shadow shifts.
Now when I read that she is kicked down a flight of stairs, I can say, "Ah, the subway entrance."

Since you are planning to shoot this yourself, you include camera shots. If this were a spec script, you wouldn't do that. This is kind of your own production script. Even so, it would help you to put each of your shots on a separate line. This calls them out and makes it easier for any hired lighting, sound, and production/camera crew.

"...blood is coming out of her head, nose, and pelvic area. Zoom the camera closer in synch with each heartbeat until at a CU of the black-haired female's blood-soaked head. ..."
...blood is coming out of her head, nose, and pelvic area.

ZOOM in synch with HEARTBEAT: <-- Is her heart racing (raped)? slowing (dying)?

CU of the black-haired female's blood-soaked head.
...

The description of her attacker is lacking. "Tall, muscular" How do we know? Is he in a jogging suit, an athletic t-shirt. Does he have an age or race? It's okay to not disclose all the facts to the audience, but you need to think through how what you say is made visible. "Tall" is obvious, "muscular" not as much. Do we see his arms? If so, are they bare? If so, do we see his skin? We see him pick up her head and smash it into the ground. If you want to indicate he's muscular you need to emphasize it by his actions. Punching her and kicking her doesn't indicate strength as much as surprise. What would a wardrobe designer need to know to cloth the assailant? Not specific details but evidentiary details. He needs to wear gloves or he has an overcoat.

The paragraphs are too dense. They need to be broken up into separate visual images and/or action sequences. The scene with the homeless man seems rather unrelated and further confuses me as to the topography of the "DOWNTOWN HOUSTON STREETS". (You need to be more consistent with the sluglines. That is how you will track where scenes are shot.) Since these two scenes have different sluglines, as a reader, they are happening in two different places. Now there's a gated alley? What does the cell phone have to do with anything? Was it just to introduce the voiceover narration? The prolonged voiceovers in the restaurant recreation is hard to follow. Why aren't they just talking?

Then the whole episode becomes rather bizarre. The dialogue is rather labored and doesn't seem the storyline forward. I'm afraid I started losing interest and had to skip forward a few pages. Buffalo Bayou made no sense. Remy's bedroom made no sense. "FLYING SAUCER BAR"/"FLYING SAUCER DRAUGHT EMPORIUM" (again the sluglines) made no sense except to introduce the sex scene which seems totally unrelated to anything.

Overall, my impression is that you took several visual scenes and just pasted them together. If this were a TV show, you would have lost me on page "2" when you started the voiceovers in Ibiza with the backwards leaning waiters. I have no idea about Elle and very little about Remy. No clue what this is supposed to be about. Is the assaulted woman dead or alive?

I concur with Danjama, this is too disjoint with no underlying story or distinguishable characters. The formatting doesn't help, unfortunately.
 
Please use CeltX or use a template that will provide proper formatting for the screenplay. The document is not properly formatted which makes it difficult to read. Please use Courier 12 pt font. Do not center everything. You should avoid italics. Your pages need to be numbered. Those four points will cause most readers to reject reading this after the first page no matter how compelling your story. Also, if you want to get backers or even quality actors, they will know the difference.

I originally started out using celtx, though when I started to bring it with me to work on during my lunchbreak, I found out that I am unable to download CeltX here, so I decided to just use Word as it is something that I can use both at work and home and I tried to mimic the word template I found somewhere. As for the font, as this is a draft, I am using something that I am comfortable with, as I find Courier to be rather an appalling and ugly font. Though I guess when I ask again for more feedback, I will need to remember to provide it in that font. I italicize the items I do as a way for me as it helps keep Action/Description items separate from the notes I write on the pages and is easier for me when I skim through looking for something.

In your scene descriptions, include all the relevant details. You say "HOUSTON DOWNTOWN STREET". For me, Houston seems pretty flat or at city-wise fairly level. At the top of page "2", you say she fell down a large flight of stairs. How does a downtown street have a huge flight of stairs? After your slugline, detail the location enough that I, the reader, can understand the scene.
Now when I read that she is kicked down a flight of stairs, I can say, "Ah, the subway entrance."

Thank you for catching something that I didn’t (Houston Downtown Street, as it should be Downtown Houston Street). And for the most part, you are correct about most of the city, especially the surrounding metropolitan area, being fairly flat/level. Though that is not to say that there are no areas that are elevated higher than others and have stairs thatlead downward, particularly in the historic part of Downtown Houston by Buffalo Bayou. Additionally, you are correct about her stumbling down the street, as it should be sidewalk – something that I can’t believe I missed. Though I get your point – and I will use this as a way to incorporate a better lay out for her stumbling down the sidewalk and then across the street towards a building that has a set of stairs that lead to a “basement” level/sub-street level abandoned business which is frequented by transients.

"...blood is coming out of her head, nose, and pelvic area. Zoom the camera closer in synch with each heartbeat until at a CU of the black-haired female's blood-soaked head. ..."

...blood is coming out of her head, nose, and pelvic area.

ZOOM in synch with HEARTBEAT: <-- Is her heart racing (raped)? slowing (dying)?

CU of the black-haired female's blood-soaked head. ...

“The sound of a heart BEATING slowly, with gradual increases of space between each beat.”
I thought that this sentence at the beginning of the (admittedly) long description would be enough without having to re-explain a few sentences later when I move to the zoom in synch with the heartbeat part. Maybe I will see what I can do in order to make this a little more clear that her hear is beating slowly while she lies dying


The description of her attacker is lacking. "Tall, muscular" How do we know? Is he in a jogging suit, an athletic t-shirt. Does he have an age or race? It's okay to not disclose all the facts to the audience, but you need to think through how what you say is made visible. "Tall" is obvious, "muscular" not as much. Do we see his arms? If so, are they bare? If so, do we see his skin? We see him pick up her head and smash it into the ground. If you want to indicate he's muscular you need to emphasize it by his actions. Punching her and kicking her doesn't indicate strength as much as surprise. What would a wardrobe designer need to know to cloth the assailant? Not specific details but evidentiary details. He needs to wear gloves or he has an overcoat.

Point well taken. By muscular, I envision this being only viewed by the audience (since thsi scene will be shot through Elle’s POV) as through a broad chest that we see coming up behind her in the compact mirror, as that is the only time that we notice him before he punches her, knocking her unconscious. I will do a more descriptive portion when he walks over to bend down and slam her head into the concrete, as that is the point where he is more visible through the flickering light

The scene with the homeless man seems rather unrelated and further confuses me as to the topography of the "DOWNTOWN HOUSTON STREETS". (You need to be more consistent with the sluglines. That is how you will track where scenes are shot.) Since these two scenes have different sluglines, as a reader, they are happening in two different places. Now there's a gated alley? What does the cell phone have to do with anything? Was it just to introduce the voiceover narration?

Yes, these are actually two different streets within the city and are in reality only a few blocks away from one another. The gated alley is right next to Remy’s building (mentioned at the end of page 14) and is mentioned again after page 15 ends in the feedback part that you read.

As for the sluglines, should I actually use street/cross-street names to be more specific as to the area that I am talking about? I thougt that I was supposed to be more generalized in case?

The cell phone is a symbol that I am using to represent the ease/lack of mobility and how effective in communicating with otheres that each character in the film has in addition to being a a clue as to who the dead girl is in the bayou, who her family/friends are, what happened in the hours before her abduction, rape & murder and eventually leads to the person who committed these atrocities against her.

The prolonged voiceovers in the restaurant recreation is hard to follow. Why aren't they just talking?

The voice over part in the restaurant is a past conversation that they have had trhough this comes to light throughout the movie as the entire conversation (currently about 10-15 pageso of dialogue) is played in full through different parts (a la Memento) though it only plays out in his dreams (the Ibiza and recollection of the first time that they met) or when he losss focus on the task in front of him and his mind starts to wander. I am going to insert a DREAM SEQUENCE slug to indicate that this part as such

I concur with Danjama, this is too disjoint with no underlying story or distinguishable characters. The formatting doesn't help, unfortunately.

Thank you very much for your input FantasyScFi. I have read a lot of your posts to others and you provide terrific feedback, I am glad that you took the time to read what I am working on and were able to provide me some.

For the most part, I am getting that I need to work on smoothing the transitions between the scenes to make them feel like they actually belong together as as opposed to the jukey and hard transitions (if any at all) that I currently have in place. It seems that I also need to remember that what I have read multiple times and know by heart is new to others who will not understand what is currently happening, even though the explanation is in the next few pages, as you all are not mind readers (I have my foil hat on) have not read any of the other pages that are ommitted from this version.

It seems that with my first attempt at writing a script, I have a lot to learn in order to keep the interest of the readers in the surreal world which I am placing them into. Though I am going to keep at it.

Thank you once again – cheers!.

Adam
 
I decided to just use Word as it is something that I can use both at work and home ... I find Courier to be rather an appalling and ugly font. ... I italicize the items I do as a way for me as it helps keep Action/Description items separate from the notes I write on the pages and is easier for me.

For your own personal script notes, that's fine. When you shop it out, it needs to be clean. The purpose of the 'industry standard' is that it evolved from thousands of hours of production work. When a script is formatted to this standard, one page is roughly one screen minute. This makes it very convenient for budgeting.

Houston Downtown Street ... should be Downtown Houston Street. ... Yes, (the homeless guy) is (on a different street with a) gated alley is right next to Remy’s building.
As for the sluglines, should I actually use street/cross-street names to be more specific as to the area that I am talking about?

The sluglines are important for production. They help to organize and estimate duration of filming at sites, rental costs, etc. Sluglines are specific markers. They are often given short names that are unique. There is nothing wrong with using specific street names. Or you can give a fictional street name. You want names that are distinct.

I thought that this sentence at the beginning ... would be enough ...

Always try to keep your visual and sound elements together. In a spec script, you would not have camera directions. Since this is your production script, you can include them. My suggestion would be to do something like "ZOOM on head (SYNCH with SLOWING HEARTBEAT of dying woman)". As a spec script, you might write "Her facial features and eyes slowly fix as the beating of her heart slows to a halt."

By muscular, I envision ... the audience (sees) ... through Elle’s POV ... a broad chest ... behind her in the compact mirror.... he is more visible through the flickering light

I like this image. I can imagine a lumbering figure backlit. That didn't come across to me in your script description. Your description here though made sense. That's the approach you need in your writing.

The cell phone is a symbol ... in addition to being a a clue as to who the dead girl is in the bayou, who her family/friends are, what happened in the hours before her abduction, rape & murder and eventually leads to the person who committed these atrocities against her.

To have an effective symbol you need to have it link in a memorable way. By just having it appear, the cell phone--despite the messages which mean nothing at this point--loses its magic. It seems unconnected to her or the rest of the story because of how you placed the scene.

The voice over part in the restaurant is a past conversation ... the entire conversation (is) currently about 10-15 pages of dialogue ... only plays out in his dreams ....

Voice overs take a lot of editting work. It is often better use the actual actors present. Now I'm going to give you the bad news, even though it's divided over different segments. 10-15 pages of dialogue in one location is too much. You should have 3 pages at most. Alot of your dialogue was also "Hi. How are ya" kind of chit chat. You need to chop it down. Use action to portray more of the dialogue. Here is an example.

Elle and Remy sit facing each other as the waiter nods and leaves. Between them are two glasses of white wine.

Remy reaches over and takes Elle's hand. He lifts it towards his lips, gazes into her eyes and pauses.

She smiles, waits and then the smile loses its luster. Her eyes wrinkle, puzzled.

He shifts back and kisses her hand.

She withdraws it slowly. Her fingers wrap around the stem of the wine glass and she sips.

CELL PHONE RINGS.

ELLE
Just for tonight. Ignore it.​

He smiles but glances down.

CELL PHONE RINGS.

He pulls his chair back. He stands, looks into her face.

REMY
I need to take this. (beat) I won't be long.​

He walks to a secluded area of Ibiza. As he talks, she glances over at him. She picks up her wine glass, looks into, and takes a drink.

Etc.

In the example, there were only two lines, but we have a strong sense of the dynamics of their relationship.

Flashbacks and dream sequences work best if you create links to reality. It's a safety line that helps your audience go into the surreal pieces and re-emerge. Towards the end you can let the edges blur. But initially, you need to help them wade into the shallows.

For the most part, ... I need to work on smoothing the transitions between the scenes to make them feel like they actually belong together ... I also need to remember that what I have read multiple times ... is new to others who will not understand what is currently happening.... in order to keep the interest of the readers in the surreal world which I am placing them into.
Adam

You picked up on the key points. Let me say that you have imagined some very visual segments. What is needed is to tie them together in a way that develops the characters more substantially. Using the existing elements, I think you can do that. Here is an example of one re-ordering of your scenes to link the cell phone and characters.

Brunette enters the side street, stumbles and catches herself. Her high heels click as she proceeds into the darker area. A can rattles. She stops and turns, but there is nothing. She turns back panicked and fishes in her purse. Focus on the cell phone on sidewalk on a different street. She starts walking. A tall, massive figure is backlit. As she walks, she hears footsteps behind her. She pulls her purse close to her and pulls out her compact. She uses it to look over her shoulder and sees a man striding toward her. He asks if she needs help. As she turns, he knocks her out and kicks her.

Cell phone rings. A homeless man picks up the cell phone. He examines it and sticks it in his pocket. The brunette is smashed into the pavement and left to die. Shift to Remy's apartment with him asleep. His room is messy with pictures of him and Elle about. He awakens. He walks past the homeless man in the morning. Police car with a siren races past as Remy steps into a taxi. Police canvass the area. The homeless man runs and hides.

Night, Remy enters bar. He glances up at a TV report that shows a crime scene. He throws back a couple drinks. He flashes back to scene with Elle. An attractive woman approaches and greets him. He smiles and they leave. In his apartment, she asks a few questions about the girl in the pictures. He gives a nebulous answer. They have animal sex and fall asleep. He has his restaurant dream. He awakens covered with sweat and sees the naked girl beside him sleeping easily.

Etc.
This should take about 14-20 pages. Your original scenes are in blue. My additions are black. As you can see, your scenes are major points. This arrangement links the cell phone, Elle, Remy, the homeless man and the murdered brunette. In this case the audience isn't wondering IF they are connected but HOW. Since Elle doesn't have many speaking roles at first, most of her introduction and development is by way of pictures, flashback, and short answers by Remy. Remy's character is developed more fully as we see him engaged in everyday activities. The brunette becomes a more terrified character being in the dark without a cellphone, alone and stalked. It gives the characters an opportunity to change over the movie as we learn more about them.

I added a few connecting scenes to create links and transitions. Even though not said explicitly, the brunette is linked to the cell phone. Remy walks past the homeless man, linking him to the phone and the homeless man. Remy is linked more intimately with Elle. All this ties into the murder. So in the "first act" we meet the key characters, link them, and tie them to this murder in a way yet to be learned. Based on later elements of your story, you can draw in other elements to your scenes.

Adam, I think you have the beginnings of a good movie. Often movies take many re-writes. Since you are looking to produce it yourself, a good clean script and story will help save (and make) money. Keep up the good work.
 
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