Ok so I need some help. I have been talking to admissions over at the LA Film School. It cost 35000 for tuition and it is only a year long school. You receive, basically, a certificate of completion, rather than the traditional degree. For the price, would this hurt my career in the film businessor help it. I am not going to be a big indie film maker lol, I am looking to get out of the indies and go to the studios. Thanks, Jack
LA Film
- Thread starter JackRyanLangston
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LA Film School is decent but the certificate won't really do anything for you as far as getting into the Studios. First of all, what do you want to do at the Studios? If you want to direct, you would probably be better off spending the money and making your own film... Unless of course, you have no idea what you're doing... Then the school might be good to at least learn how to go about making a film.
Having said that...
You keep talking about getting to work and writing something with Movie Magic... LOL.
Probably the best and fastest way to get to the Studios is to write an outstanding high concept spec screenplay. If you learn all about STORY AND screenwriting; come up with a high concept idea, and execute it well enough, you have a decent shot at selling it.
Tall order but it can happen.
Once you sell a spec, ALL THE DOORS BEGIN TO OPEN.
Selling a spec will most certainly lead to producing and directing if that's where your heart lies and you keep focused on those goals.
The reason I would pick writing a great screenplay over making a film is because YOU ARE GOD. You control everything as the screenwriter. No dealing with people who weren't able to show up... No dealing with egos...
Additionally, a great spec screenplay is like a piece of real estate where a great short film is well... A great short film. Very seldom does a filmmaker of a great short film or decent feature get a chance to work for a studio... The percentages simply aren't there.
More screenwriters have gone on to become producers and directors than filmmakers and it's much cheaper in the long run... And, as you get better and better, you can always go back and dust off those previous specs and perform a rewrite that makes them ready to sell.
How do I know all this?
Because it's happening to me... I sold a spec a little less than a year ago... I'm working on the rewrite to be completed at the end of this month. We go into production at the end of the year/beginning of next year. Funding is IN PLACE.
On top of that, everyone wants to see my other specs as well as hear my other ideas...
Life is good.
filmy
Jack,JackRyanLangston said:
LA Film School is decent but the certificate won't really do anything for you as far as getting into the Studios. First of all, what do you want to do at the Studios? If you want to direct, you would probably be better off spending the money and making your own film... Unless of course, you have no idea what you're doing... Then the school might be good to at least learn how to go about making a film.
Having said that...
You keep talking about getting to work and writing something with Movie Magic... LOL.
Probably the best and fastest way to get to the Studios is to write an outstanding high concept spec screenplay. If you learn all about STORY AND screenwriting; come up with a high concept idea, and execute it well enough, you have a decent shot at selling it.
Tall order but it can happen.
Once you sell a spec, ALL THE DOORS BEGIN TO OPEN.
Selling a spec will most certainly lead to producing and directing if that's where your heart lies and you keep focused on those goals.
The reason I would pick writing a great screenplay over making a film is because YOU ARE GOD. You control everything as the screenwriter. No dealing with people who weren't able to show up... No dealing with egos...
Additionally, a great spec screenplay is like a piece of real estate where a great short film is well... A great short film. Very seldom does a filmmaker of a great short film or decent feature get a chance to work for a studio... The percentages simply aren't there.
More screenwriters have gone on to become producers and directors than filmmakers and it's much cheaper in the long run... And, as you get better and better, you can always go back and dust off those previous specs and perform a rewrite that makes them ready to sell.
How do I know all this?
Because it's happening to me... I sold a spec a little less than a year ago... I'm working on the rewrite to be completed at the end of this month. We go into production at the end of the year/beginning of next year. Funding is IN PLACE.
On top of that, everyone wants to see my other specs as well as hear my other ideas...
Life is good.
filmy
Thanks a bunch. Great information. And yes, I love Movie Magic, it never has been easier.
I agree with Filmy, but with one proviso -- if I was starting out I'd look at some of the short courses that the great international film schools run -- like London, New York and Prague.
I think that a week's course on basic film technique can save years of learning by making stupid mistakes and also gives you a feel for how your ideas and words translate into actual scenes on the screen.
Even though I now make a living film making and have made a farily large (for an indie) budget feature, I still ocassionally consider doing the Prague School short courses because I never got a film school education and ironically have never had the opportunity to shoot on film!
I think that a week's course on basic film technique can save years of learning by making stupid mistakes and also gives you a feel for how your ideas and words translate into actual scenes on the screen.
Even though I now make a living film making and have made a farily large (for an indie) budget feature, I still ocassionally consider doing the Prague School short courses because I never got a film school education and ironically have never had the opportunity to shoot on film!
clive said:
Hey that's my Mom's pet name for me.
Jack, film school is not for every one, but I've hard some folks make this analogy -- who's the better brain surgeon? The self taught one or the one who went to med school?
I didn't finish film school, I don't think I need what it offers. But some do feel they need it.
In the end, you have to decide if you want to spend all that money.
Poke
When I sit down to watch a movie I don't care what the director (or writer, producer, gaffer, DA...) got a degree in, or what school they went to. But I don't go to a self taught doctor or lawyer.
All I can do is agree with everyone so far. I don't do well in a school environment (didn't graduate high school) so never even considered film school - other than where I got the bulk of my film education: on set. I also have no problem making stupid mistakes. I keep making them and I keep learning from them.
Jack, I don't think a certificate from LA Film School will help and I know for sure it won't hurt. My advice is to take $20,000 and live frugally for a year while using the other $15,000 to make a feature movie.
All I can do is agree with everyone so far. I don't do well in a school environment (didn't graduate high school) so never even considered film school - other than where I got the bulk of my film education: on set. I also have no problem making stupid mistakes. I keep making them and I keep learning from them.
Jack, I don't think a certificate from LA Film School will help and I know for sure it won't hurt. My advice is to take $20,000 and live frugally for a year while using the other $15,000 to make a feature movie.
I'm not disagreeing with this, but if you do go down this route make sure you take Filmy's advice first and don't just make the first feature length screenplay you write.
Of that year out, I'd say invest seven months where you did nothing else but read other people's screenplays, read books about screenplay writing and at the same time, write and rewrite and rewrite and rewrite.
The most difficult part of this process is finding people you can trust to tell you when your screenplay is ready to go into production, because if you;re anything like me you'll think every time you've finished a new draft that it's perfect!
Which it never is -- look at it three days later see how you feel 
In my career I've only ever made one incredibly stupid mistake -- Pushing my scripts for production before they were ready!
Only problem is I've made variations of this mistake over and over and over again -- I've shot screenplays that were great ideas but not properly developed and in the process bankrupted myself -- I've put screenplays into the marketplace too early and had doors shut for me that could have remained open -- I've made OK films that with another month's work could have been great.
Seriously, and the only attitdote to this problem is to surround yourself with people who can look at your work and say "I don't think the first act is holding together" .. or "there's no character development in this script" ... or "Why the heck do you use so much parenthesis in your scripts, makes them hard to read?"
Now for some people they find that peer group at college, they get it from other students and tutors, some find it in the industry.
Like Rik I learned my film making working on professional shoots -- so maybe you could try to find some runner work (can't remember what you Yanks call this job!) on some pro shoots.
There are lots of advantages to wroking like this -- if I'm honest most of the film school graduates I've met have been terrible film makers, with really bad production habits that they picked up in college! It takes forever to untrain them.
I can understand this caution. But I'm glad I wasn't cautious. I shot the first feature script I ever wrote. It was a horrible piece of crap - and I loved every minute of the process. In hindsight, even that disastrous first screening when even the cast and crew hated it, was a great experience.clive said:
I learned so much making that movie. And it cost me less than a year of film school. But as I think we all are saying, each person has to choose and take their own path. Maybe a year at LA Film School is the right one for some (most?) people.
Let me tell you a little story of a man named Coot.
I work on the technical side of a CPA firm. I do IT security auditing. Basically I'm a white hat hacker. People pay me to go in and hack their business (mostly banks) then tell them what's wrong and how to fix it. Mon - Wed of this week I was in a different training class each day. This is company training, what is a consultant, how to write business proposals, and how to sell. It was basic corporate stuff. The presenters, and all the participants had and boasted about their degrees. They were all surprised to find I don't have a degree or certification. The funny thing about it was, people with experience are more valuable than people with a degree. Questions were asked and the college grads couldn't answer, but I could. Some of the methods, which were taught, was nearly uncomprehendable to the grads but I was fine.
Now take my life you'll see I was working towards a filmmaking career and I didn't even know it. I never went to school or got a certification for filmmaking. I started out making 2D animations on an Apple 2c in 5th grade. Then I got into CAD and started my own business at 14. At 16 I started selling $9,000 to $30,000 machines at trade shows, including the international trade show in Las Vegas. Right after I turned 19, I graduated High School and started working on selling and my business full time. I also started dabbling with Autodesk 3D Studio making some animations here and there. At 21 I closed my business and went to work in retail. I decided to go to college and get an electronics degree. At work, I was asked to become manager of one of the store's divisions at 24. I stopped going to school since I was making more money than I would have with the degree. I also started an entertainment business throwing raves and private intemate parties, showing some trippy animations. At 28 I injured my knee on the job and was basically made to sit on a chair. It wasn't something I wanted to do so I decided to change my career. It was time to go back into computers so I researched certifications and found that MCSE's make pretty good money and started the class. It was about $3500 for the class. Then they started offering the Cisco CCNA certification. I dropped the MCSE class and helped build the CCNA lab and set up one of the class rooms at the school. I did get my CCNA certification, schooling cost a total of $5000. Shortly thereafter I got a job based on the certification, then another then the certification lapsed. Then I got another job based on my experience and now I'm where I am, getting paid to hack.
In the middle of all that, I decided to focus on my hobbies and decided to become an editor. They make good money. The biggest problem was, I didn't have anything to edit! So I ended up writing, shooting, and editing. I made some shorts, working on some VFX, doing some animations still, and here I am. I started a VFX copmany with 2 others in the crew. We're working on a few projects right now. I also have some other things going on. I'm a businessman. I think of a business and I make it.
Why am I telling you all of this? It's because I didn't need school to start my own businesses or get my current job, or to make my films. If I wanted to go full time into filmmaking, I'd get experience making films and working for people who make films. You could have 20 certifications, but if you have no experience you're less valuable. When I hire people I look for experience, not certificates or degrees. I know many others who hire the same way.
I'd suggest taking a couple thousand and get a good cam, or rent one. Then make a movie. Write a short script. Get some friends to be actors or put up something on Craigslist or Mandy saying they won't get paid but you'll feed them and get them a copy of their performance for their reel. Then make that shit. Yes, it will probably be shit. Mine sure was. I even put it up on triggerstreet and had tons of critiques. It was terrible, but I LEARNED by my experience and learned what to do and what not to do on the next one. You progress is your craft that way.
If you want to be a filmmaker, then make films.
Read all you can read, ask all you can ask, do all you can do, be all you can be as a filmmaker.
Once you make your first short, you ARE a filmmaker!
What are you waiting for?! Go now! Write that script and have someone here or a few of us critique it. BUT write the script to your budget. If you have $0 budget, then include what you have. You can't have a car crash or exploding buildings on $0 budget. But you can have meaningful dialog, suspense, comedy, horror, etc.
We are all here to help.
I'm not downing school, heck everyone other than myself has gotten their degrees in my firm but me. But why did they hire me without one? Experience. I'm the only one in the entire firm without one!
I work on the technical side of a CPA firm. I do IT security auditing. Basically I'm a white hat hacker. People pay me to go in and hack their business (mostly banks) then tell them what's wrong and how to fix it. Mon - Wed of this week I was in a different training class each day. This is company training, what is a consultant, how to write business proposals, and how to sell. It was basic corporate stuff. The presenters, and all the participants had and boasted about their degrees. They were all surprised to find I don't have a degree or certification. The funny thing about it was, people with experience are more valuable than people with a degree. Questions were asked and the college grads couldn't answer, but I could. Some of the methods, which were taught, was nearly uncomprehendable to the grads but I was fine.
Now take my life you'll see I was working towards a filmmaking career and I didn't even know it. I never went to school or got a certification for filmmaking. I started out making 2D animations on an Apple 2c in 5th grade. Then I got into CAD and started my own business at 14. At 16 I started selling $9,000 to $30,000 machines at trade shows, including the international trade show in Las Vegas. Right after I turned 19, I graduated High School and started working on selling and my business full time. I also started dabbling with Autodesk 3D Studio making some animations here and there. At 21 I closed my business and went to work in retail. I decided to go to college and get an electronics degree. At work, I was asked to become manager of one of the store's divisions at 24. I stopped going to school since I was making more money than I would have with the degree. I also started an entertainment business throwing raves and private intemate parties, showing some trippy animations. At 28 I injured my knee on the job and was basically made to sit on a chair. It wasn't something I wanted to do so I decided to change my career. It was time to go back into computers so I researched certifications and found that MCSE's make pretty good money and started the class. It was about $3500 for the class. Then they started offering the Cisco CCNA certification. I dropped the MCSE class and helped build the CCNA lab and set up one of the class rooms at the school. I did get my CCNA certification, schooling cost a total of $5000. Shortly thereafter I got a job based on the certification, then another then the certification lapsed. Then I got another job based on my experience and now I'm where I am, getting paid to hack.
In the middle of all that, I decided to focus on my hobbies and decided to become an editor. They make good money. The biggest problem was, I didn't have anything to edit! So I ended up writing, shooting, and editing. I made some shorts, working on some VFX, doing some animations still, and here I am. I started a VFX copmany with 2 others in the crew. We're working on a few projects right now. I also have some other things going on. I'm a businessman. I think of a business and I make it.
Why am I telling you all of this? It's because I didn't need school to start my own businesses or get my current job, or to make my films. If I wanted to go full time into filmmaking, I'd get experience making films and working for people who make films. You could have 20 certifications, but if you have no experience you're less valuable. When I hire people I look for experience, not certificates or degrees. I know many others who hire the same way.
I'd suggest taking a couple thousand and get a good cam, or rent one. Then make a movie. Write a short script. Get some friends to be actors or put up something on Craigslist or Mandy saying they won't get paid but you'll feed them and get them a copy of their performance for their reel. Then make that shit. Yes, it will probably be shit. Mine sure was. I even put it up on triggerstreet and had tons of critiques. It was terrible, but I LEARNED by my experience and learned what to do and what not to do on the next one. You progress is your craft that way.
If you want to be a filmmaker, then make films.
Read all you can read, ask all you can ask, do all you can do, be all you can be as a filmmaker.
Once you make your first short, you ARE a filmmaker!
What are you waiting for?! Go now! Write that script and have someone here or a few of us critique it. BUT write the script to your budget. If you have $0 budget, then include what you have. You can't have a car crash or exploding buildings on $0 budget. But you can have meaningful dialog, suspense, comedy, horror, etc.
We are all here to help.
I'm not downing school, heck everyone other than myself has gotten their degrees in my firm but me. But why did they hire me without one? Experience. I'm the only one in the entire firm without one!
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One advantage to school is access. Access to gear that you don't have to buy. Access to crew in the form of your fellow students. Access to technical and artistic advisors who are your instructors. In the LA Film School, you have access to industry professionals with things like Emmy and Academy Awards who come to speak to your class.
If you go the self taught route, then you're losing that access and doing all that yourself. You have to buy the gear. Buying gear is costly and time consuming because you have to do your research so you don't buy a technology which is going to be outdated in a year. You have teach your self the process with no teacher steering you away from beginner pitfalls. You have to scare up a crew which is usually your less than motivated buddies. To talk to a industry professional you have to track them down and make cold calls which will most likely never be returned. So you can see the self taught route isn't all it's cracked up to be.
To each his own. I know folks who did it themselves and turned out to be great filmmakers. I know film school students who did the same. I know plenty of both who should go into shoe sales or something else useful. In the end, it's not the piece of paper or the cool gear you own, it's what you put into your movies that matters. If you go to film school and slack off, you'll get a lousy education and student loan debt. If you buy a bunch of gear and shoot with a first draft script with your next door neighbor as cast and crew, then you'll end up with a crappy movie and credit card bills due on your gear.
Scott
If you go the self taught route, then you're losing that access and doing all that yourself. You have to buy the gear. Buying gear is costly and time consuming because you have to do your research so you don't buy a technology which is going to be outdated in a year. You have teach your self the process with no teacher steering you away from beginner pitfalls. You have to scare up a crew which is usually your less than motivated buddies. To talk to a industry professional you have to track them down and make cold calls which will most likely never be returned. So you can see the self taught route isn't all it's cracked up to be.
To each his own. I know folks who did it themselves and turned out to be great filmmakers. I know film school students who did the same. I know plenty of both who should go into shoe sales or something else useful. In the end, it's not the piece of paper or the cool gear you own, it's what you put into your movies that matters. If you go to film school and slack off, you'll get a lousy education and student loan debt. If you buy a bunch of gear and shoot with a first draft script with your next door neighbor as cast and crew, then you'll end up with a crappy movie and credit card bills due on your gear.
Scott
The common thread I'm reading here in all these terrific (and inspiring) stories seems to be that an aspiring filmmaker have a positive, hard-working attitude, regardless of the path taken to reach the goal. In every field that I've worked (theatre, advertising and now film), I find that a hard-working attitude is one of the most important ingredients to success. It's the core from which all else springs. It's the magnet that attracts others to want to work with you, and you with them. And it's what will drive you to succeed in anything.
Is a person born with this kind of attitude or can it be learned if it's not organic? I don't know. Maybe it has to do with being lucky enough to find something you love doing so much that you'll work hard enough to achieve whatever it is you want to achieve.
Is a person born with this kind of attitude or can it be learned if it's not organic? I don't know. Maybe it has to do with being lucky enough to find something you love doing so much that you'll work hard enough to achieve whatever it is you want to achieve.