Kevin Smith retiring

sonnyboo

sonnyboo

I see no one mentioned this, but Kevin Smith just premiered his latest film, a HORROR movie called RED STATE at Sundance. There was supposed to be an auction for the film with distributors, and Kevin Smith decided to self distribute the film himself, going town to town and selling his Q&A in the ticket price.

He also announced that he is retiring from directing after his next film, a hockey flick. Smith wants to help filmmakers get their movies made after that he said.

RED STATE has been getting some absolutely atrocious reviews at Sundance.

Interesting.
 
No offence to the man, and I know he's an inspiration for a lot of indie filmmakers, but he hasn't made a decent film in years.

I guess critical maulings take their toll on you and it's better that he preserves his legacy now rather than having all his good work diminished by crappy film after crappy film...
 
And you have to consider where he probably is financially as well. At some point, with multi millions in the bank, I think it's easy for a point to come where you say "You know screw this noise." He wouldn't be the first.
 
What a lot of Kevin Smith fans don't realize is that his bold statements and total transparency on sets, as well has incredibly scathing and detailed descriptions of Hollywood in his podcasts/college speaking/DVD's are NOT appealing to their productions. When the big studios sink millions of dollars into a movie, they want control of every part of how that movie is leaked to the public. Kevin Smith tells everyone everything. Combine that with stories like he did of head of Warner Bros. and Tim Burton on Superman Lives, and you have the makings of a Hollywood Pariah, not hero.

Kevin Smith lived (and died) by the Weinsteins. If they didn't like the project he was going to make, there was no where else to go. He tried MALLRATS, and more recently COP OUT out from under the Weinsteins, and both bombed at the box office. Now he's been consistently losing box office for the Weinsteins. Looking at his career purely from a mathematical standpoint, he's a risk to invest in. The costs of his film go up and their return on investment go down. In other words, he's paying the price for being unconventional.

As a fanatic for his movies in the 1990's, I can say without a doubt the last 10 years have yielded a single movie I liked, CLERKS 2. I hated JAY & SILENT BOB STRIKE BACK, JERSEY GIRL, ZACK & MIRI, and even the CLERKS ANIMATED SERIES.
 
CLERKS 2 was the first time I think Kevin Smith directed with the camera. He was always good with actors and of course dialogue, but he never used the full potential of what a camera can do to tell the story cinematically. In CLERKS 2, the camera did some things that helped support the story and emotional intent.

DOGMA is a great example of a movie I loved, but still feel that it would have been better served with a better director with more "vision" for how it should have looked and been dealt with. There was no scope or scale to this story to match the emotional intent. Great dialogue, great story, no pizazz and it had one of the all time best DP's on the movie (who hated Kevin Smith) Bob Yeoman.

Maybe Kevin will still write, but no longer direct.
 
sonnyboo said:
Maybe Kevin will still write, but no longer direct.
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Now you're talking...that would be good for him.

Also, you made great points about his transparency being a scary thing for the Studios who he worked with in terms of control. However, they're also one of the draws of his films as well. The interest generated in a Kevin Smith movie is pretty much unrivaled in the business. So, all of his antics did account for decent business for the most part. Until the quality kept slipping.

I'm a Kevin Smith fan...I used to say HUGE Kevin Smith fan but I guess I can't really get away with that in the last few years as I didn't even like CLERKS 2.

A lot of folks think it means something for him to self-distribute...like it will SHOW THE WAY to indie filmmakers. It won't. He's in a unique position that MAY allow him to be successful self-distributing. He's got the infrastructure in place to make it less risky a proposition than 99 1/2 % of movies in the can without a deal.

I hope he does write a killer script and gets a great visual filmmaker to direct it (I'll offer my own STEP OFF director up to Kevin as long as I get to Co-Produce...that's how GENEROUS I am).

I just think he'll likely come around and un-retire 8 months after the release of Hit Somebody.


Martin Kelley
 
martay said:
Also, you made great points about his transparency being a scary thing for the Studios who he worked with in terms of control. However, they're also one of the draws of his films as well. The interest generated in a Kevin Smith movie is pretty much unrivaled in the business. So, all of his antics did account for decent business for the most part. Until the quality kept slipping.
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But in the grand scheme of things, he NEVER did that well. Comparatively speaking, his movies cost a few million and made under $20 million..... whereas the studios want to spend $50-$85 million with the intent of making $100-$200 million. Kevin Smith never registered on their radars because he was a niche filmmaker for a specific niche audience. So the "draw" you refer to is limited.

He was profitable yes (at times), but he never broke through on the actual mainstream level like a Quentin Tarantino or a Steven Soderberg. Even art-house guys like Richard Linklater made "School of Rock" and the remake of "Bad News Bears".

We all relate to Kevin Smith because he represents a generation and a movement in indie film, but his actual success within the industry is not very high. He never scraped out of the indie cult hero and into mainstream with a crossover hit. It's hard for our perception to see that since he has successes that most of us dream about; works with actors that win Oscars, etc.

I'm a fan of Kevin Smith, but less and less so because of his actual movies.
 
"We all relate to Kevin Smith because he represents a generation and a movement in indie film, but his actual success within the industry is not very high."

Agreed. His pop culture fame (especially in the indie hipster crowd) far superceded what he ever did as far being a real "success". I think a lot of us aspire to, and appreciate the success he DID have. He's making a living, and DIDN'T have to direct the Bad News Bears remake, but in the grand scheme of hollywood I think his announcement got a big fat "Oh yeah, Kevin Smith... he was still making movies?"
 
On thing Im getting out of this thread is that Kevin Smith has been an utter failure as a filmmaker. His films never sold, never had an audience, correct ?? Whaaa ??

Clerks - Failure !!
Mallrats - Failure !!
Chasing Amy - Failure !!
Dogma - Failure !!
Jay & Silent Bob - Failure !!
Jersey Girl - Failure !!
Zack & Miri - Failure !!

Granted.. no George Lucas or James Cameron numbers $$


I wish I was a miserable failure like that lowlife Kevin Smith, he don't know shit bout makin movies !!:no:
:rolleyes:
But Seriously..I disagree. time will tell if he is done, huh ? he does serve a niche audience 4 sure
 
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At least for me, not saying that at all, and again, I can only dream of his level of success right now, BUT he is what he is. A moderately successful filmmaker who hasn't so far lived up the initial hype.
 
sonnyboo said:
DOGMA is a great example of a movie I loved, but still feel that it would have been better served with a better director with more "vision" for how it should have looked and been dealt with. There was no scope or scale to this story to match the emotional intent. Great dialogue, great story, no pizazz and it had one of the all time best DP's on the movie (who hated Kevin Smith) Bob Yeoman.
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For me, Dogma is perhaps the quintessential example of my problem with KS. When I heard it was a poke at Catholicism I thought, "Finally, he's taking on a topic with some weight!" My wife and I eagerly bought tickets, salivating at the thought of another Life Of Brian. Instead, we were treated to the usual 90 minutes of juvenile poop jokes, fart jokes, and pop culture references that characterize everything he's done. How anyone could take a subject so rife with comic potential as organized religion and manage to get nothing out of it but grade school potty humor is absolutely mind-blowing. I doubt we've ever had our expectations so thoroughly dashed by a movie.
 
Here's the grosses for theatrical releases:
Cop Out - $44.8 mil
Zack and Miri Make a Porno - $31.4 mil
Clerks II - $24.1 mil
Jersey Girl - $25.2 mil
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back - $30 mil
Dogma - $30.6 mil
Chasing Amy - $12 mil
Mallrats - $2.1 mil
Clerks - $3.1 mil

This appears to be a middling success on paper. However, remember that MOST of these were released in the heyday of DVD sales. And almost all of these titles were DVD hits due to his rabid fanbase. Also, the relatively low budget of these help nearly all of them close to break even before they hit DVD.

His diatribe refers more to the recent COP OUT debacle than most of his movies. I doubt that the other companies spent anywhere near the Marketing outlay that Warner Bros. did for Cop Out.

He's bragged many times at his ROI on films like Clerks 2, etc. Not to mention Chasing Amy and Clerks (250K & 35K budgets respectively)

Think about how much he makes in merchandising, etc.

He may be far better off already than some of the peers mentioned who haven't consciously created themselves as a Cottage Industry.

I think he's been very successful until recently and he's grasping for ways to keep the train running that makes sense for his niche...and I think he will for the most part.

As for him becoming a distributor...I won't hold my breath on him discovering indies the way he was discovered. He's got a lot of filmmaker friends and I'd be surprised if his slates aren't just culled from those contacts. So, the idea that Kevin is going to help a bunch of indie filmmakers "make it" is pretty silly in my opinion as well.

Be ready for films from Scott Moser, his Jersey buddies, and Richard Kelly and others who have difficult films in terms of finding major mainstream deals.

That's just my cynical take on it all,

Martin
 
sonnyboo said:
DOGMA is a great example of a movie I loved, but still feel that it would have been better served with a better director with more "vision" for how it should have looked and been dealt with. There was no scope or scale to this story to match the emotional intent. Great dialogue, great story, no pizazz and it had one of the all time best DP's on the movie (who hated Kevin Smith) Bob Yeoman.
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I agree. I had read the script in advance and thought it was great and would be a terrific movie.

But he didn't have any vision for it. Just the standard View Askew production aesthetics...which kept it back as a film.

Martin
 
Kevin who? Kidding.

No loss there. I was never a fan and can only admit to seeing Clerks.

Yes, he made a name for himself with Clerks and covered some ground as a writer/director with a slue of hits/misses/whatevers, but in the spectrum of creative, inventive, mindful, rogue, intellectual indie filmmakers out there working now, Smith's voice will not be missed. It's pretty much been supplanted by the Apatows, Rogans, Ceras and Carells.

If anything I hope he gets his health back in order. Did he end up losing all that weight he said he was going to? Maybe we'll see him on The Biggest Loser. Wouldn't that be a trip.
 
sonnyboo said:
Hopefully Kevin will still write, but no longer direct.
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Fixed that for you.

As far as the word "retirement" is concerned, I have two words: Brett Farve.

I'm with the Boo though. Dogma was a great piece of writing that needed a director. I liked it better than any of this other stuff, save Clerks, but that's just a side effect of strong writing.
 
There's something funny about an artist retiring. Do you shut your brain down, and stop creating? Directors are artists. So basically he lost the passion, and he knows it will not return. Okay, fine. So if that's the case, why announce it instead of just stopping? I mean really, how do you know you will not want to direct again? Or is this hype for this hockey film as the last KS film? And then a "come out of retirement" film? Hmmm marketing strategies for his next two films. Things to ponder.
 
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