Is using a clapper board really necessary in the age of scratch tracks?

H

harmonica44

I was on another director's set helping out and learning, and I don't get why him and probably others, are so adamant on using them. Not only that but they will be very specific in how they use them and what is written and spoken off, of them. In the old days that was necessary since there was no scratch tracks, but today, I have no problem not using one. I just line up the audio take with the video scratch track easily. Plus after listening to the video take, the audio take, takes no time at all to find, since I just recognize how the dialogue was spoken during playback.

With the short film I shot I really had no time for a clapper board with the actor's availability and the availability of the locations. I just had to a lot of takes quick without having time to rewrite on it, and clicking it every time. So why in the age of scratch tracks are they still used on no budget productions, instead of using that time for other things?
 
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If done properly, slating a shot takes very little time at all - and you can always do a tail slate/end board at the end of a shot if you really need to do the take straight away, or if it would be too awkward to get the slate in at the beginning (a very emotional scene or an extremely tight close up, for example).

You're talking about a situation where not only is the editor on set, but he is also the writer and director - present in every stage of production. As soon as you start to break those roles up, slating becomes a lot more useful: it saves the editor time when labelling shots; it allows them to refer to the script supervisor's reports and camera log sheets, so they can pick out the best takes and work round technical problems; if you need to shoot pickups (as you have done), you can use the slate and paperwork to work out what lens, filtration, f-stop etc. you shot with to match shots much more easily.

Of all the things that take time on a smoothly-running film set, slating a shot is not one of them; and the time and money it can save you further down the line is well worth those few extra seconds at the start of a shot.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I was on another director's set helping out and learning, and I don't get why him and probably others, are so adamant on using them. Not only that but they will be very specific in how they use them and what is written and spoken off, of them. In the old days that was necessary since there was no scratch tracks, but today, I have no problem not using one. I just line up the audio take with the video scratch track easily. Plus after listening to the video take, the audio take, takes no time at all to find, since I just recognize how the dialogue was spoken during playback.

With the short film I shot I really had no time for a clapper board with the actor's availability and the availability of the locations. I just had to a lot of takes quick without having time to rewrite on it, and clicking it every time. So why in the age of scratch tracks are they still used on no budget productions, instead of using that time for other things?
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You don't have to use one if you don't want to, especially on a no budget production. Using a slate without a dedicated second AC can DEFINITELY be a very time consuming thing, and you're right, when you can scratch and sync every night if you want, bin scenes in a project with ease or separate scenes on the fly there doesn't have to be much more to it.

On a large production, a slate wouldn't be a big deal. Second AC and all.

We attempted to use a slate for the first few days, every so often there was one when there was an extra hand around to hold onto the slate as a dedicated job (Second AC, again) but when there wasn't, I clapped or snapped or actors clapped.

In fact, a month ago we cut a video of the claps and snaps throughout the entire feature into a "beat" or song and it'll be one we release as promotion for the movie.

Do what you can, but don't let it slow you down.
 
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It depends. If you're recording single system audio then it's (obviously) a non-issue. If you know your work, know where things sync up and how they should and are shooting on a DSLR or something comparable that has an audio track on it, then it's really up to you how you work.

A slate is important, and as Kholi points out takes no extra time if you have a 2nd AC. The thing is, a lot of productions are shooting on cameras that have no sound - even lower budget indies are shooting on Red, Alexa etc. As well, it can take a lot of extra time syncing up manually. Marking an in point of the slate on the video, then an in point on the audio and hitting sync can take 10 seconds and if you have hundreds to thousands of takes is going to save you so much time (and therefore money) by using a slate rather than having to spend 5 or so minutes per take getting the sync right. I've also seen DSLR movies where editors think they've sycned up properly but are actually slightly out.

Plus, all the extra info on slates - with slates and paperwork, it will take you two seconds to find the corresponding audio file, whereas without them you'd have to scrub through all your audio to find the correct file...
I also find it can instill a feel of professionalism on a lower budget set. With a clapperboard, some people can see it as a serious production, rather than just a couple of friends with a camera.
 
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If you keep good paperwork and track good takes, you can also save time on post by only working with the two good takes of a shot/angle instead of 17 assorted takes.

It's a good practice to learn. Like it's been said, doesn't take long once the rythm is down. It may not be a massive issue on a short, but with longer projects where you have several terabytes worth of video and audio files that you captured on a 1-6 week straight period, the slate is extraordinarily important. Isn't the whole point of shooting shorts to get the experience needed for a feature?
 
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If done correctly when the editor looks at the footage the thumbnail of the clip will show him the slate with what scene and take it is. This is then compared to the notes which tell him what takes are "good" and what takes are "bad" saving him endless hours in the editing process. It also makes sound sync marginally easier (though a good editor doesn't really need it, he can sync sound by just looking at the wave forms).

I also find the ritual of doing it brings everybody into focus. I ALWAYS slate.
 
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I used it one time for a really short indie film with just a couple of us. It worked good and was handy for adding the sound effects in later in post. It also helped me organize the clips by thumbnail which were jumbled around in my computer. I think they really do help a lot and it will save the editor a lot of time in post, therefore saving you money. I think they're essential on studio productions though you can get by on indie films. I'd still advise using them, no matter what the film.
 
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Haha, yeah it's normally 2AC but on an indie set with a skeleton crew so many jobs have to overlap that you can almost call them whatever you want. What's important is the job gettin done.

And I'll admit, there's been several times where I've been in a hurry and skipped the slate, usually I skip separate files/takes and tell the guys to keep it rolling in those cases. The trick, as with any rule in filmmaking, is to do it until you understand why you're supposed to and can make an informed decision on wether or not it's wise to "observe," "break" or "bend" it in any given situation.
 
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Indeed.
I've never actually had a 2nd AC. I usually have a 1st AC/Focus Puller, but never yet the luxury of a 3rd Camera person. Scripty seems logical because who better to get the shot numbering right than the guy keeping the notes on each shot.
 
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It's a important to develop the proper habits and follow protocol all the time. This way it's not a big deal or anything unusual when you are finally working with a budget. The same applies to all of the other preproduction, production and post-production protocols.

I agree that when shooting guerilla style this is not always possible.
 
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The Clapboard is still very useful for syncing audio to video, if you are recording to more than one source audio recorder in a production. We were planning to record audio to both a Tascam recorder and my DPs camera last week, before the rain messed up our shooting days. The clap from the clapboard is how the audio is synced.

That's why it was done with film too. Film does not record audio. A seperate recorder is needed and the clap is done in front of the camera to sync it on the time line.
 
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PaulGriffith said:
If you keep good paperwork and track good takes, you can also save time on post by only working with the two good takes of a shot/angle instead of 17 assorted takes.

It's a good practice to learn. Like it's been said, doesn't take long once the rythm is down. It may not be a massive issue on a short, but with longer projects where you have several terabytes worth of video and audio files that you captured on a 1-6 week straight period, the slate is extraordinarily important. Isn't the whole point of shooting shorts to get the experience needed for a feature?
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I can try to use a slate in the future but will have to make more time, and ask the actors to extend their schedules longer, or I will just have to learn to work much faster with the slate, while getting everything else ready mostly myself in between takes.

Another thing is it doesn't seem like there is such thing as 'the good take'. Each take is good in a section, and when it comes to editing my first short for example, there are several cuts back and forth and during those I use different parts of almost all the takes. One scene I used probably different parts of 10 takes alone for one angle that keeps cutting away, and back.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I can try to use a slate in the future but will have to make more time, and ask the actors to extend their schedules longer, or I will just have to learn to work much faster with the slate, while getting everything else ready mostly myself in between takes.

Another thing is it doesn't seem like there is such thing as 'the good take'. Each take is good in a section, and when it comes to editing my first short for example, there are several cuts back and forth and during those I use different parts of almost all the takes. One scene I used probably different parts of 10 takes alone for one angle that keeps cutting away, and back.
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A whole take may not be trash, but it's handy for the editor to know what the problems are with each one.

There may be a note: "Scene 11C Take 2: Audio: Train in distance"
The editor knows the audio is bad in take 2 because the sound guy could hear a train in the distance under the track.

There may be a note "Scene 6F Take 1: Director didn't like performance" or "Scene 6F Take 5: Boom in the shot" or "Scene 6B Take 2: Talent dropped a line".

It doesn't mean there is nothing usable in those takes, but the editor will look at other takes first because he KNOWS those takes have issues. We also make notes about the opposite "Scene 4 Take 4 "Director said this was best take for performance".
 
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In some film productions too, only the circled (ie good) takes would actually get transferred for edit. Whether or not that still happens, I'm not sure but it certainly happened at some point. As has been said, it's important for the editor to know exactly what happens in each shot. If there's a better take available, he'll use it. Camera and Sound reports are important for all of that sort of stuff, and also for tail slating etc. I've received sound reports that are blank except for the file number and take number. This can make syncing difficult when there's second sticks or a tail slate. When I was editing that short, there were a couple of shots that when dumped into the timeline and played, the audio was not the take and instead was the 2nd AC yelling 'second sticks' and clapping again. Had to re-sync that shot.. Not disastrous, but could've saved some time.

In terms of time, and getting the thumbnail - there's a technique to slating, and it really only takes a few extra seconds. Certainly don't need to push actors schedules around or whatever. It often depends on the 1st AD on what they'll call for, but it's usually a matter of sound calls that they're rolling, the 2nc AC puts the slate in, calls it (ie 21-apple take 2), the 1st AC or cam op frames up the slate and/or pulls the focus to it, hits record and will say mark it and the 2nd snaps it an gets out of frame. It's literally a 5 second process and when you start working with serious editors it's something you'll have to do lest they yell at you for not slating properly....

That said, if you don't have the extra hands and especially if you're editing yourself, it's hardly worth the extra two minutes for you to hit record, pick up the slate, fill it in put it in front of the camera about where you think the frame is, hit it, put the slate down and walk back over to the camera, frame up and start the scene... It's necessary when working with cameras that don't record a scratch track and I would suggest you bring someone on to do it, even if that's their only job (though extra hands are always helpful on a film set anyway), but if you can't get someone else on and you're doing eveything yourself it's hardly worth the extra time.. Unless you're shooting on film/red/alex/etc.
 
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Why not include the girlfriend in the tasks of slating and continuity?;) You can persue your hobby AND you make your girl happy, because she is soooooooo important for the success of the movie :D

Also, girls like to remember their boyfriends of everything they have forgotten although they promised it to do :lol:
 
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In the film world, the terms "cut, print" at the end of the take mean that the director wants the take printed from the negative and shown in dailies/ available for editing. Not all takes get printed from the developed negative as it could be quite expensive to do so... so only the best bits actually even get considered by the time it gets to the editor.
 
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