Is this the best to start with?

U

Unobservant

I'm yet another getting into filmmaking (short films with fictional plots is the end goal for now). No film school and no experience past some anime music video editing and vacation videos. I met up with someone through Craigslist and we're learning together. Also I'm going to help out another more established dude shoot a short film this weekend, and I'm grateful for the opportunity. So far through our experimentation, sound seems to be the main challenge. We definitely don't have the equipment we need for it yet, and I'd like to keep my sound equipment purchases under $800 for now... Here's what I have for a basic starting equipment package and what I'm thinking of buying, and I'm looking for tips:

Dual Core Mac Pro with Final Cut Studio - It's really nice :)

A windows laptop

Canon Vixia HF100

Slik tripod: http://www.amazon.com/Slik-Professi...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1277393521&sr=8-3

90-120 degree non-powered microphone with a mono 1/8" jack

An aluminum non-telescoping 3-4 foot boom pole with a holder for the microphone.

Sennheiser HD 212 Pro headphones


And here's what I'm thinking of purchasing:

Nady 4 channel battery-powered mixer: http://www.amazon.com/Nady-MM-141-4-CHANNEL-Mini-Mixer/dp/B0009X9H9I/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Wireless mic/transmitter: http://www.amazon.com/Azden-WMS-PRO-Wireless-Microphone-System/dp/B00006JPD8/ref=pd_cp_e_1

Windmuff, if needed: http://www.amazon.com/Rode-Deadcat-...TF8&coliid=I1XMAEXMMU0V04&colid=2JTBCIKLBPE87


I figure I can probably record right into the laptop... I'm not sure if I need something like this instead:

Tascam DR07 Portable Digital Recorder: http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR07-Portable-Digital-Recorder/dp/B001QJOI8E/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_2


My main concern is the quality of the mixer. It's pretty much as cheap as you can get, and initially I was aiming for something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

But then I figure I needed to upgrade everything else to work with the XLR connections, which kinda bumps everything up an order of magnitude in price. I read somewhere and kind of agree that the sound has to be good enough where people in general don't pay attention to the sound.. it doesn't have to please the audiophiles.. so I'm wondering if my initial shopping list and existing inventory would be enough. Plus, I'm wondering, if you have two people talking, when do you use a wireless mic and when do you use the boom mic typically? Do you need two wireless mics or just put the boom pole in between. We'd probably need to add a shotgun mic near the camera as well? Which of these would have to be stereo, and which mono?

Anyway, thanks for whoever offers an ear!
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
Sighhhhhhhhh.......... Here we go again......

All of your audio choices - with the exception of the Rode dead cat - are close to being junk. Yes, they will do the job, but will create so many problems that you will have to spend more time/money to fix the problems that they create.

There are two issues that should be addressed when you are looking to purchase audio gear (or anything else for that matter).

The first is the technical aspects of how audio works. All of your choices are high impedance. This means very short cable runs, ten feet max, or you run the risk of RF (Radio Frequency) interference; you'll be picking up random pieces of police, fire, AM/FM and other radio transmissions as well the occasional cell phone. The cheap manufacture also means that the gear generates a lot of self noise, usually hiss, but in combination with the nature of high impedance, is also very prone to buzzes and hums.

The second aspect to consider is ROI (Return On Investment). Yes, it's very inexpensive, but it will not be compatible with professional gear, nor will there be a market for it if/when you decide to upgrade and sell the gear.

So on to specifics...

The Nady mixer will be noisy.

The Azden wireless have limited range and are extremely prone to RF interference.

The HD 212s are "colored", meaning that they hype certain frequencies so will not give an accurate representation of what you are hearing.

A 4' boom pole is too short; 12' at the minimum, preferably 16' or more.

The DR-07 will not accept low impedance inputs, so will need to be replaced when you want to upgrade.

A laptop cannot be used for run & gun, which makes up a large percentage of low/no/micro budget filmmaking.

There will be so many problems with the sound that you will have to spend money on noise reduction software and have to expend the time to clean up the production sound, a tough gig even when the production sound is good and you have the proper tools.



You're right, audiences don't pay attention to sound; except when it's poor. They are used to and expect "Hollywood" quality sound. Professional sound folks expend a great deal of money and effort to capture quality production sound, and audio post people like myself spend a great deal of time cleaning it up and processing it even further as well as adding enhancements such as Foley and sound FX.

If you're a hobbyist go right ahead and get your list. If you want to become a professional filmmaker do it right the first time and save yourself the frustration and headaches.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sorry to be yet another clueless newbie Alcove :) Thanks for the very helpful response. It's kinda hard to figure out the world of audio equipment at a first go, due to all the different parts involved. So I did some more research based on a list that I think you posted in a blog, and some other reviews.
Sony MDR-7506 Headphones - $90
AZDEN SGM-2X Professional Shotgun Microphone - $207
Audio-Technica AT4021 Cardioid Condenser Microphone - $249
Homemade Boompole - $50 ..can use the guide for making one if you still have a reference..the link in the blog is dead
Azden Portable 3-CHANNEL Field Mixer - $305
Sony UWPV1 Lavalier Microphone, Bodypack Transmitter & Portable RX Wireless System - $479
Rode dead cat - $39
Cables - $100
Zoom H4n - $299

Total - $1818

In practice with short film making, what situations call for a wireless mic anyway? I read (most of my learning so far) that you want to avoid using a wireless mike as much as possible, yet I see it usually mentioned as a part of a filmmaker's basic sound kit.

Also, I wasn't sure if the Zoom H4n was good enough, or I should consider something like the Sony PCMD50 for $445. I read up a little on how impedance works in terms of sound equipment, and I sort of get it, so I see with the Zoom's XLR inputs, it should definitely accept low impedance input. It being usable as a 3rd mic possibly is a versatile feature.. but..

Given all this, which I'm opening to buying, does anything here sound a bit like too much more than I'd actually make use of much, at least for the first couple of years of filmmaking?

My initial plan, I'm thinking, will be to try to find comparable used equipment from video production outfits in the NYC area, maybe getting a little demonstration first before purchasing too.

Am I more on target? I am, for now, admittedly a hobbyist, but it would stink if I can't do a somewhat decent job at it, and I knew it was an expensive hobby getting into it. I just prefer to spend less until I get smacked on the head by people like you!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
I personally would avoid Azden gear. The reason it's so cheap is that it sounds, well, cheap.

Don't get into wireless mics yet. Lots of folks think that they're a cure-all, but there are many difficulties that are not easily overcome. Also, you are going to need at least two. Ditch the wireless and the mixer for now and spend the money on better mics and a proper boom pole.

Shotgun (outdoors) - Rode NTG-2 kit (mic, boom pole, softie, shock mount, hand grip) - $580
Cardioid (indoors) - Audio Technica AT4053b - $500
Zoom H4n - $300
Sony MDR-7506 - $100
Two (2) Pro Co 30' XLR cables ($45ea) - $90

Total - $1,570

Plug the mics directly into the Zoom. Simple, easy to use, cost efficient. That should take care of 98% of your sound needs for quite a while. The mics will retain much of their resale value when you want to upgrade (a long as you take care of them). Just keep in mind that quality sound is not just the gear, but the expertise with which the gear is used.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top