Is the Canon XA20 the right camcorder for a microbudget documentary?

[HermitCrab]

Hi All, I am a new member of this forum. I am planning to make an independent, experimental microbudget (~6.000 dollars) documentary (subject is top secret so far, but it will involve mainly interviews to people sitting indoor).

Despite loving indie movies and watching lot of documentaries I have never been involved into filmmaking (expect a brief experience as audio assistant for a friend who was making an indie movie) I want to express myself and make people aware on topics I consider important and as my future job future job (I am a student atm) could involve documentaries, I really want to getting into the thing.

Given the budget I will write the script, direct, film and edit the film, all will be made only using opensource software on a linux box (this is done to lower the costs and because I like opensource philosophy) and it will be distributed in an “alternative way” (I want to stay vague on this as I am not sure yet).

I gave myself a year to practice and a summer to “make it” (from filming to releasing it).

As I mentioned my budget will be roughly 6.000$ (this includes buying equipment), the “ideal equipment” I could come up is this, (keep in mind that it will be used for documentaries only and hopefully will be used for a decent amount of years/projects):

- Mic: Rode NTG2 short shotgun microphone

- Lights: was thinking about this “Lumenator”→ https://colorright.us/index.php/led-lighting/lumenator-super-bundle-pro-pre-order.html what do you think?Better alternatives?

- Homemade rigs (slider,stabilizer etc)

- Camcorder: I think a camcorder would suit my needs better than a DSLR, I don't have to take photos and the models I looked were smaller than DSLRs.

- Anything else necessary??

About the camcorder: I spent weeks looking online to find the "best" camcorder to make my documentary: and after never ending doubts involving Canon XA10 vs Canon XA20 Vs Canon HF G30 i found a video review (which i won't post as i don't want to spam) that convinced me that Canon XA20 is the best of the three, i still have some question about it though:

1) XA10 controls on the shoe are noisy due to the loose buttons, was this problem fixed in the XA20?

2) In presence of flashes (wedding etc) XA20 gets white strips (from what I understood only if u take photos), is, in your opinion, this very noticeable/a big issue? It might put me off if it is a serious issue.

3) On a website i read that the batteries are not the same as XA20, are they a common standard or some weird standard used for this model? In other words, when the battery needs to be replaced, will I be able to buy other easily and without spending a fortune?

4) XA20 lacks of manual gain/shutter, I have not managed to understand their functions, therefore i ask:are automatic ones ok??

5) The main difference between XA20 and XA25 is the built-in HD/SDI, which is present on the 25 but not on the 20, i doubt i will ever need it, but i read that the cost for a converter is lower than the costs difference between the two models, is it true?

6) New or second hand? With a limited budget i would like to save up some money if i can, but i have no experience in camcorders so i have no idea on how to recognize a good second hand camcorder, what to check before buying etc . I cannot afford to buy a second hand camcorder that is flawed and that would give me problems forcing me to buy another one (as i would not have money to buy another camcorder), in doubt i prefer buying a new one and be "sure" that it is ok.

7) Overall, Would you recommend the XA20 to a beginner as a camcorder to start with?

Thanks in advance

 

[directorik]

1) XA10 controls on the shoe are noisy due to the loose buttons, was this problem fixed in the XA20?

The buttons are not noisy or loose. Their placement near the mic allows
for the audio pick up. Using an external mic will eliminate this issue.

2) In presence of flashes (wedding etc) XA20 gets white strips (from what I understood only if u take photos), is, in your opinion, this very noticeable/a big issue? It might put me off if it is a serious issue.

This is a general issue when shooting digital video. do you believe
you will be shooting in areas where there is a lot of flash photography?

3) On a website i read that the batteries are not the same as XA20, are they a common standard or some weird standard used for this model? In other words, when the battery needs to be replaced, will I be able to buy other easily and without spending a fortune?

The batteries last for decades. They range in cost from $60 to
$130. Have a $60 one as a back up.

4) XA20 lacks of manual gain/shutter, I have not managed to understand their functions, therefore i ask:are automatic ones ok??

That surprises me. I have used the 10 many times and it has manual
control over shutter and gain. I wonder why Canon dropped that in the
20. I'm not a Canon fan. I prefer Sony and Panasonic.

5) The main difference between XA20 and XA25 is the built-in HD/SDI, which is present on the 25 but not on the 20, i doubt i will ever need it, but i read that the cost for a converter is lower than the costs difference between the two models, is it true?

It is true.

6) New or second hand? With a limited budget i would like to save up some money if i can, but i have no experience in camcorders so i have no idea on how to recognize a good second hand camcorder, what to check before buying etc . I cannot afford to buy a second hand camcorder that is flawed and that would give me problems forcing me to buy another one (as i would not have money to buy another camcorder), in doubt i prefer buying a new one and be "sure" that it is ok.

Buy used ONLY from a reputable dealer like B&H never from a private
party.

7) Overall, Would you recommend the XA20 to a beginner as a camcorder to start with?

Sure. It's a fine camera to start with.

 

[Alcove Audio]

If you're doing primarily indoor sit-down interviews the NTG-2 may not be the best choice. A lav mic (or two) may be a better choice, or a hypercardioid. Most professionals would run the lavs AND a boomed mic(s) so there are more options in post. There have been situations where you could ONLY use lavs - the interviewee didn't like the mic up over their head. The biggest issue is that you usually don't know what you will need, especially when you are doing docs.

I'm a big fan renting/borrowing what I need, and hiring the proper talent if needs be. Find an audio partner who has more gear (even if it is prosumer); that's one less headache for you on location and better sound for your project.

Your project will only look as good as it sounds, because
"Sound is half of the experience"

If your film looks terrible but has great sound, people might just think it's your aesthetic.
If your film looks great and has bad sound, people will think you're an amateur.
Sound is the first indicator to the industry that you know what you're doing.


No matter what else you do, GET THE SOUND RIGHT!!!
​

For the meantime, here's my $1,200 buying guide.


Shotgun mic kits will have the shotgun mic, boom-pole, shock-mount and simple wind protection (softie).

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/551607-REG/Audio_Technica_AT_875_Shotgun_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/461493-REG/Rode_NTG_1_Shotgun_Condenser.html


Hypercardioid mic:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/867157-REG/Avantone_Pro_CK1_CK_1_Small_Capsule_FET_Pencil.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/359043-REG/sE_Electronics_SE1A_SE1A_Small_Diaphragm.html



Audio recorders:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/832911-REG/Tascam_DR100MKII_DR_100mkII_Portable_Linear.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821259-REG/Tascam_DR_40_DR_40_4_Track_Handheld_Digital.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821260-REG/Roland_R_26_R_26_6_Channel_Digital_Field.html



Headphones:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/49510-REG/Sony_MDR_7506_MDR_7506_Headphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/507447-REG/Sennheiser_HD_25_1_II_HD_25_1_II.html



You'll also need cables, cases, battery packs and other miscellaneous items - about $200+.[/QUOTE]

 

[ando913]

Hey Hermit,

I used to use a Canon HF G25 and found it was quite good for mini-documentaries and micro budget stuff, but it was lacking in a few places. (Such as no XLR ports) If you have XLR you can save a fair bit of time (& money) in post. Also the handle on the XA20 is very handy for shooting angles.

What sort of budget do you have for your camera? The Canon XF100 is also a great camcorder and comes with 50Mbps 422 shooting mode which is a broadcast minimum over here in Ireland, I'm not sure about US channels though. I think the XA20 and XF100 are around the same price now. (You can get a used XF100 from B&H for about $1900)

For sound in interviews I would go with lav mics. For run & gun I would go more for the shotgun mic. I have an NTG-2 and it has served me well for the last few years. I have Sennheiser Lavs but they can be quite expensive. I'm sure there's some cheaper ones on the market that could do a good job.

In regard to lighting you can get quite good kits on Ebay fairly cheap (around €190) 3 piece kits and other, some even come with softboxes. (Perfect for interviews)

Here's a link to a thread I started (which nobody has added to) http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?p=398939#post398939

I started it for people like yourself who could get an idea of the equipment people have and what they use it for. When you get your kit you should post it there so people can see what you went with and why.

Hope this helps a little bit at least.

 

[HermitCrab]

Thanks all for the answers!

@directorik
- I did not know it was a common problem, no I dont think I will ever film events with many flash photography, I should be safe
- I will perhaps buy an extra battery, you never know!
- I think I will stick with a new camera, too risky going for second hand!

@ Alcove Audio
- Thanks for the audio tips! I had forgotten headphones! At the moment I don't have budget for an audiorecorder (I like the Zoom H4n) but I will keep it in mind!

@ando913
- I am based in Europe and the budget I have for the camcorder is ~1700 euros (~1200 pounds or 1900 dollars, I tend to speak in dollars as most of the people here seem to be from the us), which is the price for a brand new XA20 on amazon uk, the xA10 is less than 100 euros cheaper, not worth getting an older model for such a small gap (imo)

- For this project lava mics will not be required as I will shoot from a particular angle focusing the camera on a fixed point (that's one of the reason why I said “experimental”), I will add audio (registered with the shotgun mic) on the video in post-production. I will check lav mics out for my future projects though

I did not mention some important aspects regarding my project:

It will be shoot in different parts of Europe in short amounts of time (possibly weekends) over a year (due to study and work), luckily flying in Europe is cheap (if you know how to chose you can fly for less than 50 dollars from a state to another), however all my equipment should fit a small suitcase (typical hand luggage size), using a bigger suitcase would mean having to pay to transport it (which would raise the price), risk of having it lost at the airport and having equipment damaged.

Consequently the equipment I have to use will be reduced to the minimum (which is good as I do not have money to buy extra stuff anyway) which means light DIY rigs, no big lights, no tons of cables and so on.

Some fairly lights/affordable lights (as an alternative to the Lumenator) seem to be Aputure AL-528W LEDs does anyone use them? According to online reviews they seem to offer a good quality for their price.

Just out of curiosity: am i the only one on this forum using a linux box + opensource software (in my case cinelerra) for audio/video editing?