Is My Sound Acceptable?

[nowiam]

Hi,

I made a short clip of dialogue. I am using the rode ntg-2 plugged into the zoom h4n. Please excuse the shuffle noises in the beginning. I am actually only testing the dialogue sound. I am making a short film and want to know if this quality "is acceptable." Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w77lTMsV1oY&

 

[MrJay]

Sounds solid. I'm running with a Rode Videomic plugged into a Zoom H1 and I really like it.

 

[nowiam]

Sounds solid. I'm running with a Rode Videomic plugged into a Zoom H1 and I really like it.

Thanks! So it sounds like decent sound for a film? My short film takes place in this one room only. Do you think this quality is acceptable? I plan to enter this short film into the film festivals. I am only talking about the dialogue quality. Everything else is sloppy I know.

 

[gebo]

I had to turn the sound up to hear it, your levels are too low, and I only hear it on my right speaker so there's something wrong with the recording. Sounds a bit thin also. Fix that and it will sound ok. I think...

 

[nowiam]

I had to turn the sound up to hear it, your levels are too low, and I only hear it on my right speaker so there's something wrong with the recording. Sounds a bit thin also. Fix that and it will sound ok. I think...

Thanks Gebo. Hmm.....I can hear it fine on my computer and my friends. Weird. How do I fix the thinness you talk about? Can I do that in adobe preimere cs6? Thanks a ton!

 

[rayw]

Sounds fine to me.
However, I'm also hearing it only out of my right speaker.

Don't know if this is something to address on CS6.
Might be something to address in an audio editor, basic L/R track copy and paste sorta thing.

 

[nowiam]

Sounds fine to me.
However, I'm also hearing it only out of my right speaker.

Don't know if this is something to address on CS6.
Might be something to address in an audio editor, basic L/R track copy and paste sorta thing.

Thanks. Oh wow....just noticed this. I think it may be something to do with the youtube upload. I will check the orginal file and see if I notice that too. It could have been in CS6 too since I remember only pasting the track in one audio slot.

But you think this is good enough sound for a film im entering into a film festival. The last thing I want is bad sound. I want people not to "notice" the sound. I hate it when theres bad sound in a short film it makes it seem amateurish. Hopefully this sound doesnt sound this way?l

 

[Alcove Audio]

Not too terrible. You should aim the mic at notch at the base of the throat; you will pick up more chest resonance for a fuller sound.

The volume was a bit low, probably the output level from your NLE.

 

[gebo]

The sound is good enough for festivals. Maybe you could try some EQ to make it sound even better, I'm not a sound expert but maybe lower the high frequencies just a little. When I said it sounded thin that's what I meant, too much trebele and lack of bass. But it's not bad like it is right now!

 

[MetalRenard]

Sounds clear and has minimal noise, should be ok. The "thin" aspect people are referring to means it doesn't have a lot of impact, the voice is clear but lacks certain frequencies that could make it sound much better. Alcove gave some advice which sounds like it could partly fix that.
For the final product you'd have to clean the audio and mix it of course.

 

[nowiam]

thanks guys. I am so glad this sound is acceptable. I will try to tweak it with some of the tips you guys mentioned I am glad its not considered bad sound. I thought about aiming the mic lower but it just seems most people say to put the mic above the actors head?

 

[nowiam]

Sounds clear and has minimal noise, should be ok. The "thin" aspect people are referring to means it doesn't have a lot of impact, the voice is clear but lacks certain frequencies that could make it sound much better. Alcove gave some advice which sounds like it could partly fix that.
For the final product you'd have to clean the audio and mix it of course.

Thanks. Can I do all of this in adobe premiere Cs6?

 

[MetalRenard]

I doubt it, you'd need specialised software to clean up audio. If you really want to stick to your guns and have "good sound" you'd have to actually mix EVERYTHING anyway, you can't just expect to throw everything you make into a single program, hit export and BAM have a finished film...

I advise you get an audio specialist who has the knowledge and equipment to mix for the environment your media will be shown in. I can mix stuff for use online but not for festivals so I'm not the one to ask.

 

[nowiam]

I doubt it, you'd need specialised software to clean up audio. If you really want to stick to your guns and have "good sound" you'd have to actually mix EVERYTHING anyway, you can't just expect to throw everything you make into a single program, hit export and BAM have a finished film...

I advise you get an audio specialist who has the knowledge and equipment to mix for the environment your media will be shown in. I can mix stuff for use online but not for festivals so I'm not the one to ask.

Thanks. Does it sound bad the way it is? I listen to films like Napolean Dynamite and the sound on there doesn't sound too much different? Am I wrong about that? Of course I would assume no matter what I hear my sound isnt as good as NP,lol.

 

[Alcove Audio]

I'm not a sound expert but maybe lower the high frequencies just a little. When I said it sounded thin that's what I meant, too much trebele and lack of bass. But it's not bad like it is right now!

You're right, you're not an expert. The upper frequencies are okay. Not as clear/transparent as I would like, but okay for a low-budget mic. I'm not listening in my studio (the speakers on my 'net computer are passable) but I might pull out a little at around 6.5kHz, maybe a slight bump in the lower mid-range, but I wouldn't really know until I got it on my good system. That's the biggest problem, unless you are in a sonically isolated, properly treated listening environment with a correctly calibrated speaker system it is very difficult to make accurate judgements.

most people say to put the mic above the actors head?

If you put the mic above their head you record the sound coming out of the top of their head.

You boom from above and in front in most situations. You want to get as close as you can without getting into the frame lines. The mic should always be aimed as I mentioned previously - at notch at the base of the throat.

The Inverse Square Law

In simple terms, this means that a sound twice as far away is only one-fourth as loud. A sound four times as far away is only one-sixteenth as loud. So a human voice that records with adequate volume three feet away is just one-sixteenth as effective at twelve feet.

 

[nowiam]

You're right, you're not an expert. The upper frequencies are okay. Not as clear/transparent as I would like, but okay for a low-budget mic. I'm not listening in my studio (the speakers on my 'net computer are passable) but I might pull out a little at around 6.5kHz, maybe a slight bump in the lower mid-range, but I wouldn't really know until I got it on my good system. That's the biggest problem, unless you are in a sonically isolated, properly treated listening environment with a correctly calibrated speaker system it is very difficult to make accurate judgements.



If you put the mic above their head you record the sound coming out of the top of their head.

You boom from above and in front in most situations. You want to get as close as you can without getting into the frame lines. The mic should always be aimed as I mentioned previously - at notch at the base of the throat.

The Inverse Square Law

In simple terms, this means that a sound twice as far away is only one-fourth as loud. A sound four times as far away is only one-sixteenth as loud. So a human voice that records with adequate volume three feet away is just one-sixteenth as effective at twelve feet.

I boomed centered to the actors chest but about 4 inches above his head if that makes sense. So you seem to know a lot about audio Is this passable for a film based on what you heard? I know I can still tweak it but worse case scenario would this be considered decent sound? I just don't want my sound to be considered bad because we all know that can ruin a movie Sometimes when you are looking at your own work it's hard to make an accurate judgement. Thats why im asking

 

[AudioPostExpert]

I am making a short film and want to know if this quality "is acceptable."

There is no fixed point of "acceptable" when it comes to film festivals or even for that matter for commercial use. As far as festivals are concerned, it entirely depends on the festival. For an average small regional film festival I'm sure the quality you've achieved would be fine (providing you fix the panned to the right problem), better than many of the other films being exhibited, not as good as some. As the size and importance of the festival increases, so your quality would become less acceptable. For one of the major international festivals there are several problems which would need sorting out. Noise reduction as mentioned, some de-essing probably and the jacket rustling sounds during the speaking would present a problem. As for EQ, there is no way to know until the previous problems have been sorted out and will also depend on what else is occurring in the mix.

Contrary to one of the replies, the level is NOT too low but reasonably close to being correct but again, that will depend on the film festival. The small amateur run festivals will likely not take place in a proper cinema and many/most of the entries will be probably be mixed by someone who's previously mixed music rather than film, in which case your levels will be much lower than most other entries but the levels will probably be all over the place from one film to the next. The bigger film festivals will take place in fully calibrated cinemas and the films will be mixed to proper theatrical levels.

G

 

[nowiam]

There is no fixed point of "acceptable" when it comes to film festivals or even for that matter for commercial use. As far as festivals are concerned, it entirely depends on the festival. For an average small regional film festival I'm sure the quality you've achieved would be fine (providing you fix the panned to the right problem), better than many of the other films being exhibited, not as good as some. As the size and importance of the festival increases, so your quality would become less acceptable. For one of the major international festivals there are several problems which would need sorting out. Noise reduction as mentioned, some de-essing probably and the jacket rustling sounds during the speaking would present a problem. As for EQ, there is no way to know until the previous problems have been sorted out and will also depend on what else is occurring in the mix.

Contrary to one of the replies, the level is NOT too low but reasonably close to being correct but again, that will depend on the film festival. The small amateur run festivals will likely not take place in a proper cinema and many/most of the entries will be probably be mixed by someone who's previously mixed music rather than film, in which case your levels will be much lower than most other entries but the levels will probably be all over the place from one film to the next. The bigger film festivals will take place in fully calibrated cinemas and the films will be mixed to proper theatrical levels.

G

Thanks so much for the information. I guess my speakers are not good enough to pick up the jacket rustling you are talking about. I hear it before he talks and after he talks but that was me handling the boom rough. I don't hear the jacket noise while he talks though. I will get some better headphones and take a listen.

I honestly plan to enter this into some of the big film festivals too. Im a little confused though. Your saying if the sound is not good enough some of the bigger festivals could reject your film because of that alone? I understand the sound being really bad like home video quality....that makes sense. But how good is good enough to meet the terms? I guess that question cannot be answered right?

Sorry for so many questions. But if "cleaning up" the audio is out of my knowledge can I hire someone to do this after I have filmed the entire movie? Let's say I keep the audio the way it is but feel like it could be better after I shoot the movie could I hire someone to clean it up? I am so glad to have such a wonderful place to post to like this. Makes shooting a blast and a learning experience

 

[Alcove Audio]

Let's start with the basics.

Garbage In - Garbage Out

The smaller your budget the more you depend upon your production sound. What you ultimately want to do is have someone like me do your dialog editing and other audio post, and someone like Greg (A.P.E. - AudioPostExpert) to do the mix. This costs A LOT of money, at least as far as you are concerned. $10,000 is a small fortune to someone like you, yet your competition at the major festivals will spend ten or twenty times that amount, and those with names attached will spend over $1 million (100 times) on audio post.

Without that kind of budget you had better capture FANTASTIC production sound. That means a properly aimed mic at all times, clean mic pres, correct gain-staging, etc. This also means listening to every minute sonic detail as it occurs on the set; after shooting is completed it's much too late (you don't have that kind of budget, right?). So, how do you guarantee great production sound? YOU HIRE A PRO!!! $250 to $500 a day too much for you? You had better find someone who has at least some idea of what they are doing when it comes to production sound. Remember, YOU will not be swinging the mic or overseeing the mixer/recorder or monitoring the audio - you will be directing. And unless your boom-op/PSM is competent your audio will be no better - and most probably much worse - than your most recent attempt.

Bad production sound means more time dialog editing and lots and lots of time doing noise reduction - more money. Or you will have to do lots of ADR, which means doing a complete Foley job - more money.

Every dollar/minute you spend on production sound saves you ten in audio post.

I suggest that you do a search on posts by myself and Greg (Alcove Audio and AudioPostExpert), there is lots of good information there.

 

[nowiam]

Wow you seem very informative Alclove. I appreciate your advice. I will for sure search your name and audiopostexpert. I guess I have one last question for you. Let's say worse comes down to worse and im forced to leave the audio the way it is.

Would this ruin my film? I have shown it to several people at my workplace and they all say they think the sound is fine. I guess what I am trying to figure out is how much of an improvement it makes to the general public. I know sound is very important but have I reached an acceptable level that the general public could watch without considering it poor audio? Thanks