top-list Indietalk's top 100 films

I'm curious as to why people place "The Good, the Bad & the Ugly" on lists ahead of "A Fistful of Dollars" and "For a Few Dollars More"?

Don't get me wrong, I loved the third movie but I felt the first two were far better.
 
ChimpPhobiaFilms said:
1.The Shawshank Redemption
2.Raging Bull
3.Magnolia
4.Grand Torino
5.Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
6.Rushmore
7.Chinatown
8.Half Nelson
9.The Godfather
10.The Lives of Others
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I have a new list.

1. Spike Lee Do the Right Thing
2. Clint Eastwood Grand Torino
3. P.T. Anderson Magnolia
4. David Lynch Mulholland Drive
5. Ryan Fleck Half Nelson
6. Michael Haneke Cache
7. Sofia Coppola Lost in Translation
8. Michael Gondry Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
9. Spike Jonze Being John Malkovich
10. Florian Henckel-Donnersmarck The Lives of Others

Honorable mentions:
Leon the Professional
Place Beyond the Pines
MUD
Taxi Driver
Raging Bull
Somewhere
The Devil's Backbone
21 Grams

We never got that top 100 list :mope:
Anyone else?
 
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richy said:
Isn't that your job? =)
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DDK said:
I'm curious as to why people place "The Good, the Bad & the Ugly" on lists ahead of "A Fistful of Dollars" and "For a Few Dollars More"?

Don't get me wrong, I loved the third movie but I felt the first two were far better.
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To me there's a progressive refinement from the first to the last; GBU makes the first two feel like rough drafts. There's too much exposition in the first two, too much being said verbally rather than visually, it makes them feel far more conventional as westerns. It's like they started from a basis in the westerns of the time with the first, and then progressively developed something distinctive and original which is fully realized by the third.
 
Top 10 in no particular order:

Woody Allen- Annie Hall
Terrence Malick- Badlands
Wes Craven- Scream
Michael Curtiz- Casablanca
Mike Leigh- Secrets and Lies
Woody Allen- Crimes and Misdemeanours
Michael Haneke- Cache
Steven Spielberg- Jaws
Werner Herzog- Fitzcarraldo
Jonathan Demme- The Silence of the Lambs
 
Here's my top 10, although the order varies by mood:

1. Michael Curtiz – Casablanca
2. Sophia Coppola – Lost in Translation
3. Woody Allen – Match Point
4. Frank Darabount – The Shawshank Redemption
5. Adrian Lyne – Unfaithful
6. Alfred Hitchcock – Rear Window
7. Clint Eastwood – Million Dollar Baby
8. George Roy Hill – The Sting
9. Woody Allen - Manhattan
10. Michael Ritchie - The Candidate
 
I don't like ranking but it's nice to recommend films to others so I'll give it a shot. I'll limit my top ten to one per director, it's extremely hard to pick a top 25 let alone a top 10!

1. Late Spring directed by Yasujiro Ozu
2. Rashomon directed by Akira Kurosawa
3. Citizen Kane directed by Orson Welles
4. The Seventh Seal directed by Ingmar Bergman
5. Spirited Away directed by Hayao Miyazaki
6. 8 1/2 directed by Federico Fellini
7. On The Waterfront directed by Elia Kazan
8. Mr. Smith Goes To Washington directed by Frank Capra
9. Fort Apache directed by John Ford
10. The Road Home directed by Zhang Yimou

It's so hard for me to rank even the top 10 so I'll just leave these as other favorites in no particular order.

E.T. The Extra Terrestrial directed by Steven Spielberg
Dancer In The Dark directed by Lars Von Trier
Metropolis directed by Fritz Lang
All About Lily Chou-Chou directed by Shunji Iwai
Halloween directed by John Carpenter
Batman directed by Tim Burton
Sign 'o' the Times directed by Prince
Slumdog Millionaire directed by Danny Boyle
The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button directed by David Fincher
Super 8 directed by J.J. Abrams
Black Swan directed by Darren Aronofsky
Forrest Gump directed by Robert Zemeckis
Dracula directed by Tod Browning
Breathless directed by Jean-Luc Godard
King Kong directed by Merian C. Cooper & Ernest B. Schoedsack
Nosferatu directed by F.W. Murnau
Safety Last! directed by Fred Neymeyer & Sam Taylor
The General directed by Clyde Bruckman & Buster Keaton
The Thief Of Bagdad directed by Raoul Walsh
To Live directed by Zhang Yimou
Shadow Of A Doubt directed by Alfred Hitchcock
Still Walking directed by Hirokazu Koreeda
Poetry directed by Chang-dong Lee
Joyeux Noel directed by Christian Carion
Kiki's Delivery Service directed by Hayao Miyazaki
The Day The Earth Stood Still directed by Robert Wise
Run Lola Run directed by Tom Tykwer
Un Chien Andalou directed by Luis Buñuel
Through A Glass Darkly directed by Ingmar Bergman
A Trip To The Moon directed by Georges Méliès
Pulp Fiction directed by Quentin Tarantino
An Autumn Afternoon directed by Yasujiro Ozu
La Chinoise directed by Jean-Luc Godard
The Burmese Harp directed by Kon Ichikawa
Mississippi Masala directed by Mira Nair
Kabei: Our Mother directed by Yoji Yamada
This Is It directed by Kenny Ortega
The Great Train Robbery directed by Edwin S. Porter
The King's Speech directed by Tom Hooper
Only Yesterday directed by Isao Takahata
Cinderella directed by Clyde Geronimi & Wilfred Jackson
Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind directed by Hayao Miyazaki
A Personal Journey With Martin Scorsese Through American Movies directed by Martin Scorsese & Michael Henry Wilson
The Makioka Sisters directed by Kon Ichikawa
A Hard Day's Night directed by Richard Lester
Street Angel directed by Muzhi Yuan
Night Of The Living Dead directed by George A. Romero
The Public Enemy directed by William A. Wellman
Dial M For Murder directed by Alfred Hitchcock
April Story directed by Shunji Iwai
 
Sorry, I'm going a little off topic here but from a professional point of view I find the lists posted fascinating. So few here on IT seem to have even a basic grasp of what sound design is and yet virtually everyone who has contributed to this thread so far appears to have a great appreciation for sound design but doesn't seem to realise it! While I would hope for this to be the case with general public audiences, due to the very nature of sound design, I find it fascinating (and rather troubling!) that it also appears to be the case amongst actual indie film makers/aspiring film makers!

Below I've posted a list, not of my favourite films (sorry for being off topic) but of directors and films which are the most outstanding/influential examples of sound design. This is not intended to be a list of good or great films/filmmakers, just a list of films/filmmakers particularly notable ONLY in terms of sound design. In no particular order.

1. Orson Wells - Moved sound design on a step, probably due to coming from the world of radio. Citizen Kane was a defining milestone of sound design.
2. Hitchock - Most of his films were at the cutting edge of sound design and moved the craft forward, Psycho particularly.
3. Kubrik - Again, all his films moved the art of sound design forward. The Shining and Clockwork Orange are of particular note and 2001: A Space Odyssey is a defining milestone of sound design.
4. Spielberg - Is almost unique because virtually every single film he's made has world leading sound design and each deserves individual mention but if I had to narrow the list down it would be: Jaws, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Last Crusade, Jurassic Park and Saving Private Ryan. Oh and Empire of the Sun, Close Encounters and Shindler's List and ....
5. Francis Ford Coppola - A master in the use of sound! The Godfather is a defining example of sound design and Apocalypse Now is one of the two or three most important films ever made as far as sound design is concerned.
6. Sergio Leone - Defined sound design before the term "sound design" was even invented, very few filmmakers have contributed more to the art of sound design and all his films are excellent in this respect but The Good, The Bad and The Ugly deserves special mention and Once Upon a Time in the West was a defining milestone of sound design.
7. George Lucas - Star Wars IV (A New Hope) was another of the two or three most important films ever made as far as sound design is concerned.
8. Ridley Scott - Particularly influential for the world of sound design are Bladerunner and Alien but Gladiator is worth a mention.
9. James Cameron - Always pays extra special attention to sound, which is not surprising seeing as he is a sound editor! Of particular sound design note are: Aliens, Terminator 2 and Titanic.
10. Robert Zemekis - Always great sound design but his most outstanding films in this regard are Back to the Future, Forrest Gump and Castaway.

These others are also not in any order and some of them should arguably be in the top ten, not to mention them at all would be a travesty of sound design history!:

11. David Lean - Lawrence of Arabia.
12. David Lynch - Again hardly a surprise as he is a sound designer and re-recording mixer! Eraserhead and Elephant Man, Blue Velvet and Inland Empire need to be mentioned.
13. Martin Scorsese - Many of his films have outstanding sound design but Raging Bull is of particular sound design note.
14. Peter Jackson - Return of the King and King Kong are particularly outstanding from a sound design point of view.
15. Carrol Ballard - Never Cry Wolf.
16. Wachowski Bros - The Matrix.
17. Fred Wilcox - Forbidden Planet.
18. Peter Weir - Gallipoli is worth a mention and Master & Commander is a milestone of sound design.
19. Oliver Stone - is another whose films are always superbly well sound designed, Platoon, JFK and Any Given Sunday are the pick of the bunch.
20. Kevin Costner - Dances with Wolves.
21. Michael Mann - Last of the Mohicans.
22. Jonathan Demme - Silence of the Lambs.

There are quite a few which I haven't listed but should have and for which I'll kick myself later! Just so I don't kick myself too many times: Unforgiven, Wall-E, Shawshank Redemption, Casino Royale, Hugo, The Deer Hunter, Solaris, The Fugitive, U-571, The Bourne Ultimatum, Inception...

Anyone notice any correlations here?

G
 
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richy said:
Makes me want to watch all of those films just to listen to them more closely.
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Unfortunately, with a lot of them you'll only get a rough idea of what they originally sounded like, particularly the more recent ones. It's the original theatrical surround sound mixes which were so outstanding in many of films I listed. The DVD/BluRay mixes are usually still very good though, providing you have a decent home cinema system but if you are only listening in stereo you loose another significant chunk of what made the original mixes so great. This is true of nearly all the films I've listed from the late 70's onwards but especially true of Master & Commander, Saving Private Ryan, Jurassic Park, The Matrix, Return of the King and several others. If you are listening in stereo, a good set of headphones will at least give you a decent frequency range.

G
 
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1. The Matrix
2. Superman The Movie
3. Planet Of The Apes (The Original)
4. Terminator 2 - Judgement Day
5. The Silence of the Lambs
6. Resident Evil 2
7. Resident Evil 3
8. Underworld Evolution
9. Underworld The Awakening
10. Aliens 4 Resurrection
 
APE, you mentioned 9 of my top-10! Makes me feel all smart and stuff. And I saw them all in the theater, so I got the full experience! :)
 
Cracker Funk said:
APE, you mentioned 9 of my top-10! Makes me feel all smart and stuff.
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Not really! :D

OK, I'm being a little harsh but I find it baffling that the correlation between great sound design and the favourite films listed by IT'ers proves the importance of sound design in creating a good/enjoyable film and yet in their own film making they almost completely ignore sound design to the point of not even seeming to know what it is. Why is this?

G
 
AudioPostExpert said:
Not really! :D

OK, I'm being a little harsh but I find it baffling that the correlation between great sound design and the favourite films listed by IT'ers proves the importance of sound design in creating a good/enjoyable film and yet in their own film making they almost completely ignore sound design to the point of not even seeming to know what it is. Why is this?

G
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Okay, I realize that English isn't your first language. If someone says that they "feel all smart and stuff", you can safely assume that it's being said tongue-in-cheek. :P

And I believe I can answer your question about why there aren't so many filmmakers on IT who really don't know a thing about sound design (and I'll currently include myself on that list).

APE, why don't you know more about lighting? Why don't you know more about camera work? Cuz those are pretty big things.

The answer is simple -- we're all human, we all have lives, and we all have only a certain capacity for how much time we can focus on filmmaking, be it professional or amateur.

If YOU were to produce a tiny-budget indie film, right now, I'd be willing to bet the audio would be awesome, but the story, acting and direction would probably suck major ass.

We know what sound design is! That doesn't mean we're going to be good at it. Heck, there's LOTS OF STUFF we're not good at. We're working on it.
 
Cracker Funk said:
If YOU were to produce a tiny-budget indie film, right now, I'd be willing to bet the audio would be awesome, but the story, acting and direction would probably suck major ass.
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I agree entirely. However, I believe most filmmakers here are not coming from a background of being say experienced professional cinematographers and having to learn the other filmmaking crafts. As far as I can tell, most here are coming from a background of knowing relatively little or nothing about any of the film making crafts and therefore I would expect them to be equally bad at everything to start with and to then to develop their skills broadly equally across all the film making crafts. But this isn't what I see, what I see is the level of skill in cinematography and various other filmmaking crafts greatly outstripping the level of skill with sound design. Few here wouldn't know at least the fundamental basics of cinematography but the vast majority do not appear to know the fundamental basics of sound design and very commonly don't employ any sound design at all in their filmmaking. I assumed this was because most filmmakers here were very visually oriented and therefore had various levels of incapacity to appreciate sound design but the lists posted seem to indicate this assumption is incorrect. So now I am looking for an alternative explanation.

Sorry for straying off subject.

G
 
I don't mean to step into the conversation or to "take sides" or anything like that, not at all. I was just thinking of asking you, APE, and Alcove Audio if he were game as well, or any sound people members, to make a post or a series of posts explaining, first of all, the A, B, Cs of good sound design. Not wishing to put upon you or to put you out, I'm sure you're very busy. But just as you and Cracker, I think, are both saying, it would be excellant for everyone who visits IT to learn more and to think more about sound in their aspiring work. You could make successive posts that get gradually more advanced.

But then it occured to me that it might be nice if IT had a designated Sound Design subforum. I don't know much about such things. I know that vBulletin costs enough alone, and I don't know how expensive it is to maintain. I don't know, maybe IT has as many subforums as is allowed by the technology. Or maybe the broadband or whatever would make it cost-prohibitive or something. I'm ignorant of such things. I have no idea what the owner's budget is or if it costs more to add forums etc. And maybe it's just not desired. But I do notice that there is a desingated subforum for Cinematography & Lighting. I now wonder if a designated subforum for Sound & Sound Design would be warranted? If there were a suggestion box...

=)
 
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