Indie Feature Film Equipment?

[RJBrooker]

Hello,
I am planning to film a feature film next year, over a period of 30 weeks (then 30 years post-production probably... ). I want the film to have the potential of doing what films like Primer did. I basically want it to have production values that are good enough for it to be a possible contender in the larger film festivals (I'm talking ideally).
Here is the equipment i am planning on getting. I was wondering if it was the best way to distribute the money i am spending? How likely am i in achieving this goal? Any help and advice would be seriously appreciated:

£290 Zoom H4N
£70 shot gun mic
£90-100 wired lapel mic (not sure which yet?)
£90-100 wired lapel mic
£10 stick+tape+stereo extension lead = boom-mic-pole.

£900 Canon 60D with 18-55mm kit lens
£380 Sigma 30mm f1.4 lens
£100 wide angle converter
£20 2x converter
£30 single density filter
£30-£50 Steady-cam
£0 my Dads old but solid tripod
£40 worth of lamps and 100W bulbs
(There is probably some things missing)

Before i get a bunch of post saying i am being naive and will be wasting time and money; i have decided to do it, it will be a learning experience if anything. Personally i am one that believes a good script will shine through. (Besides, what else is there to do in your final year of a masters in maths..... )

 

[chilipie]

I'd scrap the label mics and cheap shotgun, and buy a decent mic plus wind protection. I wouldn't bother with the cheap wide angle and 2x converters - why buy a nice camera and stick crap glass in front of it? I'd replace those with the Canon 50mm f/1.8.

 

[2001 Productions]

You can shoot a film with anything. Equipment is "cart before the horse". Bottom line: get good people first. Some may come with their own equipment.

If you have a high level of filmmaking expertise, a strong script and capable actors, your film will have a shot at festivals and distribution regardless of what equipment you use. If not, you can shoot with a Red and a full lighting package, but the movie won't have a prayer. Plenty have proven that.

Not meaning to be a smartass. Just been there.

 

[LMLMD]

Hello,
I am planning to film a feature film next year, over a period of 30 weeks (then 30 years post-production probably... ). I want the film to have the potential of doing what films like Primer did. I basically want it to have production values that are good enough for it to be a possible contender in the larger film festivals (I'm talking ideally).
Here is the equipment i am planning on getting. I was wondering if it was the best way to distribute the money i am spending? How likely am i in achieving this goal? Any help and advice would be seriously appreciated:

£290 Zoom H4N
£70 shot gun mic
£90-100 wired lapel mic (not sure which yet?)
£90-100 wired lapel mic
£10 stick+tape+stereo extension lead = boom-mic-pole.

£900 Canon 60D with 18-55mm kit lens
£380 Sigma 30mm f1.4 lens
£100 wide angle converter
£20 2x converter
£30 single density filter
£30-£50 Steady-cam
£0 my Dads old but solid tripod
£40 worth of lamps and 100W bulbs
(There is probably some things missing)

Before i get a bunch of post saying i am being naive and will be wasting time and money; i have decided to do it, it will be a learning experience if anything. Personally i am one that believes a good script will shine through. (Besides, what else is there to do in your final year of a masters in maths..... )

Whilst I am a million miles from being an expert, once thing I would say based on my very very limited experience is:

1) add a decent audio recorder to that list. DSLR audio is crude at best, its just not a design priority on that type of camera. Also, wired lapel mics are a liability. You would be better off either going for wireless mics, or better still splitting that money freed up between a decent audio recorder, and toward point 2.

2) The Canon kit lenses are quite poor, and the lens affects *everything* the camera records. The 60D is a good camera, and to hobble it with the kit lens is a waste. The Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f2.8 XR Di-II LD is a good lens covering similar range, but is much better optically all-round.

That said, depending on what you mean but larger festivals, I'd wager a guess that you might be being somewhat over-optimistic. You can make something you cab rightfully proud of without it having to cause a riot at Sundance

 

[RJBrooker]

Thank you for your replys.
"cheap glass"-good point. though i will be filming inside so do need something wide-angle. When you say a "decent mic" your saying a decent shotgun mic?

2001 Productions, you say that but i have seen a lot of films with terrible scripts - not to mention any names (Avatar...). Making the film shinny and pretty does seem to make people stop caring about that (Avatar....). But i hope you are right, and i will be definitely be spending most my time on the script.

 

[NickClapper]

I would agree with what chilipie says.

In addition I would add that you probably want to budget for some slightly better lights. £40 won't get you much and if you're filming to a tight schedule (which, over 30, I'm assuming you are) then you'll need to be able to control the room a bit better. I'm not sure about the price of lights but a couple of 650s to start with and, as you're in the UK, I recommend getting some smaller dedo lights- they're excellent.

Don't know what your Dad's tripod is but you never underestimate the value of a decent tripod. Not just for the sake of pans and tilts but for the peace of mind that knowing it won't get knocked down too easily gives you.

 

[Rob B]

Noob here too, so I feel your pain.. IMO, drop the steady cam, and watch some tutorials about using the tripod as a weighted stabilizer, then decide if you really need it.

Also, buy some cheap Amazon reflectors. I think I got a 40 inch for 14USD. It is a very powerful, yet cheap tool.

Editing software, that will work for your project.. and if your shooting HD, you might be looking at a new PC. You might think about 4ND and an 8ND filter. I have to stack both, on a bright day.

Regarding glass as a noob, check out some videos using the kit lens. Having great glass, is the least of my problems while I am learning.

 

[LMLMD]

I would agree with what chilipie says.

In addition I would add that you probably want to budget for some slightly better lights. £40 won't get you much and if you're filming to a tight schedule (which, over 30, I'm assuming you are) then you'll need to be able to control the room a bit better. I'm not sure about the price of lights but a couple of 650s to start with and, as you're in the UK, I recommend getting some smaller dedo lights- they're excellent.

Don't know what your Dad's tripod is but you never underestimate the value of a decent tripod. Not just for the sake of pans and tilts but for the peace of mind that knowing it won't get knocked down too easily gives you.

I'd second the tripod, having worked on SLRs with poor ones. That said, if you are strapped for funding, it's amazing what adding some weight and creating a low centre of gravity can do. Just hang a brick from the bottom of the centre-pole, can make all the difference.

 

[RJBrooker]

Thanks for the lens suggestion LMLMD. Yes, i was going to get the Zoom H4N for recording audio.
I was going to try and do most of the filming on the Sigma 30mm f1.4 lens - that seems to look to very nice? would i be naive in thinking that?

never thought of using the tripod as a stabiliser -thanks. I have been editing on my computer for a while now, it seems to manage quite well. I will add reflectors to the list though.

My dad tripod is good. It has done the trick for a while now. It think its one of the things that i have sorted. I will probably start carrying a brick around just in case though.

 

[LMLMD]

Thanks for the lens suggestion LMLMD. Yes, i was going to get the Zoom H4N for recording audio.
I was going to try and do most of the filming on the Sigma 30mm f1.4 lens - that seems to look to very nice? would i be naive in thinking that?

never thought of using the tripod as a stabiliser -thanks. I have been editing on my computer for a while now, it seems to manage quite well. I will add reflectors to the list though.

My dad tripod is good. It has done the trick for a while now. It think its one of the things that i have sorted. I will probably start carrying a brick around just in case though.

A Sigma prime is going to much better than the kit zoom, and it should make a good base lens, though must admit I've never used it for video work, logic would suggest it should still be a solid all-rounder. However you will want a decent zoom as well, as you will find yourself very restricted (and frustrated) without a decent one.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Here we go again...

Why does everyone want to go cheap on sound? Sound is half of the experience! Ergo, you should spend half your budget on sound.

Now, I realize that this is not a realistic expectation on my part. However, you should make a reasonable effort to capture acceptable sound. So, as always, my first recommendation is to find an audio partner, an up-and-comer who wants to get into production sound. S/he will have the audio basics. If that isn't possible you will have to assign one person to do nothing but audio on your set.

Now, as to the gear...

I definitely prefer the Tascam DR-100 over the Zoom H4n. Because a.) Tascam has experience with production sound gear b.) it is a much sturdier build and c.) the mic preamps sound better.

You'll have to make the call between buying a shotgun mic that will supply it's own phantom power (NTG-2 or AT897) or the recorder eating batteries at a ferocious rate (up to a sleeve of 10 AA's every day of shooting) and using a shotgun that is not self-powered (NTG-1, AT875). Don't forget about some wind protection.

There are lots if DIY boom-pole instructions on YouTube and elsewhere that will cost about $35 and be markedly better than a broomstick and duct tape plus giving a lot more reach.

Do not forget some good headphones - none of the above is worth a fart in a tornado if you don't listen constantly while on the set.

You may want to check out my blog:

http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog

 

[IndieBudget]

My vote forget the 2x and the wide angle lens... only good for effects shots. get the lens you need for a shot without adapters.. you will certainly get soft focus...VERY soft focus and lots of aberration. I used a fisheye on top of a 24mm lens on my T2i to get the below. I did this to get an exaggerated look of peeping thru a peephole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in8B1IHP6ss

 

[Jamster]

Some great info here guys - tks!

RJB I personally wouldn't use 'Avatar' as any type of example in regard your film - all the best, Jim.

 

[RJBrooker]

So people are saying don't bother with the lapel mics? (Is this because of the risk of hearing your cloths move constantly?)
The thing is i will probably be recording inside a significant amount, and for a shotgun that means a lot of echo? (as Alcove Audio mentions in his very insightful blog - thank for the link and advice).
My original plan was to get clean recording of dialog from some good lapels, then mix that with a shotgun recording to get ambiance.

 

[RJBrooker]

Didn't mean to compare my work to a very successful blockbuster. I just meant there are films whose focus is not necessarily the script - film can have many assets to it. (sorry, just don't like the film in mention... shouldn't have brought it up)

 

[Alcove Audio]

You can't use lavs (lapel mics) without using wireless trans/rec sets (unless, of course, your actors are always sitting in one spot), and I wouldn't personally trust anything less than the Sennheiser G3 systems ($600 each) - yes, there's cheaper, but the trade-offs aren't worth it IMHO.

If you are shooting primarily indoors I would get the Oktava mk012 or Audio Technica AT4053b cardioids and rent a shotgun w/wind protection for the few outdoors scenes.

 

[RJBrooker]

Thank you, it seems like a good Boom mic is the way to go. It will make editing the sound a lot simpler too.
What i originally going to do was use the voice recorder like a wireless system, let the actor carry it with them. Does a £100 wired lapel mic sound good?

 

[RJBrooker]

Another factor that made me consider Lapel mics, is that i might be recording in public places. Lapels only really pick up sound very close to them. I was wondering would a condenser mike work with some background noise.

Thank you for everyones advice and help by the way. This is seriously helpfully.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Okay, let's first correct the terminology, there is no such thing as a boom mic; any mic can be hung in the end of a boom, so you should refer to it as a boomed mic - a subtle but important difference.

Th CountryMan EMW series of lavs at about $170 are nice as are the Audio Technica AT831, but the CountryMan B-6, Sanken COS-11 and the Tram TR-50 are what the pros use ($270 - $450). They sound great, are quite small so are easier to hide, and are water/sweat resistant. As with most things, the technique is just as or even more important than the equipment. If not placed properly you get minimal pick-up or excessive clothing rub/rustle.

And, to repeat myself, from another thread,

You can't use lavs (lapel mics) without using wireless trans/rec sets (unless, of course, your actors are always sitting in one spot), and I wouldn't personally trust anything less than the Sennheiser G3 systems ($600 each) - yes, there's cheaper, but the trade-offs aren't worth it IMHO.

 

[RJBrooker]

Thank you Alcove Audio. I will probably buy a good boom and condenser mic and try and borrow a good shotgun when i need it. Your right i probably don't want to have to worry about wires running from my actors to the sound recorder (i got the idea this would significantly increase audio quality - but it seems it would be marginal).
Thank you to all the people that posted.