sound I'm trying to post sound samples to get feedback.

H

harmonica44

Sound I recorded to get feedback on the quality, and what I can do different. I tried posting on youtube, but youtube could not process them. Is there a place on here I can or can someone tell me why youtube did not? It was a file taken from FR2-LE of mine.
 
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harmonica, I hope you don't mind if I use your thread to ask a question of my own, but I think it's at
least relevent since I'm trying to figure out all this mono vs stereo stuff.

@alcove/audio folks here:

I'm about to make a purchase, my first for audio as I'm gonna be making some stuff with actual
dialog very soon. Here's my shopping cart as of right now:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/CAD-CM217-Condenser-Mic-Buy-One-Get-One-Free?sku=271324

http://accessories.musiciansfriend....od-Mic-Stand-with-Fixed-Boom-2Pack?sku=582353

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-SMPS1X-Phantom-Power-Supply?sku=180162

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live-Wire-XLRF-Dual-XLRM-Y-Cable?sku=331089

http://accessories.musiciansfriend....s-XLR-Male-to-14-Male-Mono-Adapter?sku=339518

I've already got cables and a simple digital recorder that can record stereo (BOSS BR-600). My
question is on the last link I posted. For the XLR to 1/4" adapter, should it be mono or stereo?
Since it's technically going to be just half of my stereo recording do I want it to be mono? Or
should it be stereo because it will have a fuller sound (or will it? I'm such a noob)? Or will stereo
screw it up?
 
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I'm not exactly sure what you're going for from your equipment list. Why are you using a Y-connector? If you want a mono recording from two microphones, you should be able to either record both mics to the same mono track (or pan center and record to a stereo track; not sure how that recorder works but I've used the previous generation Roland 8-tracks, and it should be pretty similar), or perhaps more ideally, record them to two seperate mono tracks that you can mix together as needed in post.

From what you have, you'll need another phantom power supply (one for each mic). Each mic should be connected to a mono xlr-to-1/4" and then to your recorder. Again, you could use the Y-adapter, but with the 8-track, I'd want to just record two mono tracks. You'll likely want this adapter instead http://backstage.musiciansfriend.co...male-to-1-4-male-mono-adapter/339523000377000 unless your XLR cables are F-F

Oh, and for the "fullness" of stereo, record all your environments/roomtones in stereo. That'll give you the depth you're looking for. For that, however, you still want two mono adapters (I don't know if that recorder accepts a 1/4" stereo cable; the old ones didn't, but used two cables as left and right signals).

As an aside, hooray for Musician's Friend! They have ended up with much of my paychecks over the years!
 
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JoshL said:
Why are you using a Y-connector?
Click to expand...

I was going from what alcove posted above. So that I can use one mic but record stereo o two tracks and set the levels on one of them to be lower which will help if there's an issue in post. But I may have read that wrong...

You'll likely want this adapter instead http://backstage.musiciansfriend.co...male-to-1-4-male-mono-adapter/339523000377000
Click to expand...

Is that different than the one I posted? :huh:

Oh, and for the "fullness" of stereo, record all your environments/roomtones in stereo. That'll give you the depth you're looking for. For that, however, you still want two mono adapters (I don't know if that recorder accepts a 1/4" stereo cable; the old ones didn't, but used two cables as left and right signals).
Click to expand...

Cool thanks for the info. So room/environment should be stereo. What about dialog? Do I want that to be mono? I'm not sure about the recorder re: if it accepts 1/4" stereo cable, it just lists MIC1 and MIC2 with a L and R line out...

Thanks again for the help. Hopefully I'll get this figured out soon so I can make the purchase and get some testing done before filming starts :)
 
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The Y-connector (and in that case, the one power supply) would work fine for that, recording on 2 mono tracks. The difference between the adapters is the one you had was a M-M and the one I linked was an F-M. A standard XLR cable has one male end and one female end. Generally speaking, the F plugs into the mic, and the M plugs into the next device in the chain (power supply, mixer, etc). So at the end, where you convert it to 1/4", you'll want a F adapter (to accept the M cable).

Mono is easier as far as editing, so for dialogue, that should be fine. Again, you can expand the space with your environments, music and sound fx. Hope that helps, and testing is ALWAYS a good idea!
 
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Dreadylocks said:
I hope you don't mind if I use your thread to ask a question of my own...
Click to expand...

1. You realize that the CM217s are one step up from disposable?

2. Why do you want stationary boom stands? They are very different than a production sound boom-pole.

3. The Nady will not run on batteries.

4. The XLR "Y" cable does you no good as you do not have XLR inputs on the BR-600;
you don't need a "Y" cable anyway, you need to run the sub-routings of the BR-600 properly.

5. The adapters are superfluous. See #4.



The whole point of a production sound kit is to be mobile and not connected to AC power
while capturing clean dialog. I'm completely aware that folks are trying to do things on
extremely tiny budgets, but at some point you need to spend some money and at least
make a nod in the direction of obtaining the proper tools for the job.

The BR-600 is another unit aimed at musicians. Musicians work at higher volume levels
than film folks, so the noisy preamps won't be noticed by musicians but will be noticed by
filmmakers. It is high impedance unit, so is prone to additional noise for that reason.
Being plugged into AC power makes you vulnerable to ground loops (hum). You'll need
separate phantom power supplies.

So simplify the whole thing; get a Rode VideoMic, plug it into the BR-600 and make a DIY boom-pole.

K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid! (Or, when I apply it to myself, Keep It Simple, S**t-head.)
 
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gpforet said:
The background sound changes about half way thru the second clip. Did the mic change position? Also the level drops a little after the background sound changes. The female voice is a bit thin. There's lots of room ring as well as pre-amp hiss. My guess is the mic was a bit more than 18" from the talent and/or aimed at her mouth, rather the top of her breastbone.
Thanks for posting.
Click to expand...

I was doing the level dropping on purpose so you guys can tell me at what point is it best. That way I'll have a better idea.
 
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JoshL said:
I'm not exactly sure what you're going for from your equipment list. Why are you using a Y-connector? If you want a mono recording from two microphones, you should be able to either record both mics to the same mono track (or pan center and record to a stereo track; not sure how that recorder works but I've used the previous generation Roland 8-tracks, and it should be pretty similar), or perhaps more ideally, record them to two seperate mono tracks that you can mix together as needed in post.

From what you have, you'll need another phantom power supply (one for each mic). Each mic should be connected to a mono xlr-to-1/4" and then to your recorder. Again, you could use the Y-adapter, but with the 8-track, I'd want to just record two mono tracks. You'll likely want this adapter instead http://backstage.musiciansfriend.co...male-to-1-4-male-mono-adapter/339523000377000 unless your XLR cables are F-F

Oh, and for the "fullness" of stereo, record all your environments/roomtones in stereo. That'll give you the depth you're looking for. For that, however, you still want two mono adapters (I don't know if that recorder accepts a 1/4" stereo cable; the old ones didn't, but used two cables as left and right signals).

As an aside, hooray for Musician's Friend! They have ended up with much of my paychecks over the years!
Click to expand...

I bought the wrong type of connector, at the advice from the person who sold me the FR2LE. I asked him which XLR cable will work well for shooting movies, and he gave me that one. I will see about getting the right one. Any other advice on what type of XLR cable I need? Should I see if I can return the one, I one I bought by mistake, or will I still need it? A Y-connector that is.
 
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JoshL said:
I'm not exactly sure what you're going for from your equipment list. Why are you using a Y-connector? If you want a mono recording from two microphones, you should be able to either record both mics to the same mono track (or pan center and record to a stereo track; not sure how that recorder works but I've used the previous generation Roland 8-tracks, and it should be pretty similar), or perhaps more ideally, record them to two seperate mono tracks that you can mix together as needed in post.

From what you have, you'll need another phantom power supply (one for each mic). Each mic should be connected to a mono xlr-to-1/4" and then to your recorder. Again, you could use the Y-adapter, but with the 8-track, I'd want to just record two mono tracks. You'll likely want this adapter instead http://backstage.musiciansfriend.co...male-to-1-4-male-mono-adapter/339523000377000 unless your XLR cables are F-F

Oh, and for the "fullness" of stereo, record all your environments/roomtones in stereo. That'll give you the depth you're looking for. For that, however, you still want two mono adapters (I don't know if that recorder accepts a 1/4" stereo cable; the old ones didn't, but used two cables as left and right signals).

As an aside, hooray for Musician's Friend! They have ended up with much of my paychecks over the years!
Click to expand...

Thanks. I want to fix the sound problem and apparently I have only been recording in the left channel. But do I need a Y cable for the FR2-LE? Or can I record on both channels using a single plug in, and I just haven't figured it out yet? If I need the cable, what do I tell the people when they order it? I don't want to tell them wrong, and the wrong is then ordered in. Do I tell them I need a Y cable one F end, and two Ms?
 
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harmonica44 said:
Thanks. I want to fix the sound problem and apparently I have only been recording in the left channel. But do I need a Y cable for the FR2-LE? Or can I record on both channels using a single plug in, and I just haven't figured it out yet? If I need the cable, what do I tell the people when they order it? I don't want to tell them wrong, and the wrong is then ordered in. Do I tell them I need a Y cable one F end, and two Ms?
Click to expand...

The FR2-LE only records in stereo (kinda weird, but I'm used to musician recording gear where you generally have more routing options). To get one mic into both channels on that device, you will need the Y cable. This is also important if you want to set one channel at a lower level, as Alcove suggested. If you bought the same Y that Dreadylocks had linked, you should be fine (that is F-2M...it was her 1/4" converters that she had M-M, and you don't need them).

Also, recording on both channels is a good idea (particularly for what Alcove suggested about getting one channel at a lower level in case of clipping peaks), but you CAN convert one channel of a stereo file into a mono file. How depends on the audio editor you are using.
 
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Simply lowering the level will not really help with s/n ratio. The only three choices are get the mic closer to the talent, have the talent speak louder, or try to quiet the offending noise. None of these can be done by changing the recording level.

harmonica44 said:
I was doing the level dropping on purpose so you guys can tell me at what point is it best. That way I'll have a better idea.
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks for setting me straight Alcove. :)

Alcove Audio said:
1. You realize that the CM217s are one step up from disposable?
Click to expand...
I don't mean this as snark and I hope you don't take it that way. But I've seen you recommend these for a low-budget kit several times on here. Are they really not worth it at all?
2. Why do you want stationary boom stands? They are very different than a production sound boom-pole.
Click to expand...
Mainly I figured that in the case of not having someone to hold a boom they would come in handy. Plus they could double as lightstands for my clamp lights. But I'll reconsider getting them.

you need to run the sub-routings of the BR-600 properly.
Click to expand...
Pardon my ignorance, but I don't understand what that means. Is there any chance you could explain it to me?

at some point you need to spend some money and at least
make a nod in the direction of obtaining the proper tools for the job.
Click to expand...
I've been going back and forth on whether to spend the little money I have saved on hiring a sound recordist and buying some cheaper stuff and having a sound person who hasn't put a kit together work for experience. I just don't think I could offer a sound recordist more than 25-50 bucks a day, and I really think that would be an insult. People should be paid what they are worth and it should reflect the time and investment they have put into their craft, imo. Sorry, what was I ranting about. lol

The BR-600 is another unit aimed at musicians. Musicians work at higher volume levels
than film folks, so the noisy preamps won't be noticed by musicians but will be noticed by
filmmakers. It is high impedance unit, so is prone to additional noise for that reason.
Being plugged into AC power makes you vulnerable to ground loops (hum). You'll need
separate phantom power supplies.

So simplify the whole thing; get a Rode VideoMic, plug it into the BR-600 and make a DIY boom-pole.
Click to expand...
So the BR-600 is crap but it's still a step up from recording directly into the camera, which I could do easily with the videomic since it's got a 3.5mm jack? Is that what you're saying?

Would you recommend this kit?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/757227-REG/Rode_VideoMic_Booming_Kit.html

One more question. I thought you don't want to use a shotgun indoors? All the scenes I have coming up to shoot will be indoors (which is why I originally picked out a cardioid condenser). Won't it sound like echoey shit? Will I be able to pick up any ambient noise? Will I have to foley absolutely everything because the mic will only pick up dialog?

Sorry for being such a noob. I am ready to spend some money on sound, I just don't want to regret my purchase. Thanks! :D
 
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1. Yup, I recommend them as an ultra-micro-low budget addition to a sound kit, but not as a primary mic. I just wanted you to be aware that you're going to get $30 worth of mic.

2. Okay, you at least have another use for them. More than you want to spend, I'm sure, but a studio mic stand would be a lot more useful - a lot easier to get in closer and to keep out of the shot as it can go over 6 feet high and has a 6 1/2 foot reach. (I have a $300 version.)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407822-REG/On_Stage_SB96_SB96_Rolling_Studio.html

3. You should be able to send a mono source to multiple channels. You usually accomplish this by using a sub buss as an input and sending the sub buss to desired channels. If the DR-600 can't do this get:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/YMP434/

4. The Rode VM kit is a nice buy; a mic and a boom-pole for $170? What a deal! And you can still use the boom-pole when you get a better mic. It will work just fine with the DR-600.

5. As I have mentioned quite often, look around for someone to be your boom-op who wants to break into the business, who's learning just as you are. $25 a day to cover gas is an okay stipend for someone who needs to gain some initial experience, especially if you feed them well. Look around for a budding music engineer with a home project studio; that's how I got started.

6. The Rode VM is not a true shotgun, it's a consumer device with a "focused" super-cardioid polar pattern; it will do just fine indoors.

EDIT - It will still sound like "echoey shit", as you put it, if the mic is not aimed right and you don't prep the room; mics don't solve the roomy sound, preparation and technique do.

7. The Rode VM will pick up whatever it is pointed at, within reason. How much additional audio post work you'll need to do depends upon how ambitious you are. Ultimately audio post folks like myself strip out everything between the lines of dialog and Foley everything; that's because we - and the directors - are all control freaks.
 
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Well I'll just get the cables that the store can order where I live. The company that makes the cables is called Yorkville, if that's a good company. Also since the FR2-LE only records in stereo, is that enough to make a film by film festival quality standards? I am a long way off from film festivals, but this will be the recorder I use to make one, when I get there. Or will I need a 6 channel recorder or something?
 
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Okay thanks. It's hard to know in what areas, I need practice and what areas I need different equipment. But that will come with experimenting. I kept practicing trying to get the left channel recorded, only to find out I need a Y cable. I just got it, and will start practicing. So just so I understand, the monitor only lets you here differently through the headphones right? The monitor does, not change the trim while recording?
 
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