Hey everybody, I've been reading the boards for a while now, and I post every now and then, but now I finally have somthing worth posting. Well my friends and I want to make a feature, just for practice, that way in a few years when we're older and more experienced with movies we'll be set to go. Well anyway, I've got about 26 pages done, I'm aiming for around 80 pages in the script. This is pretty much what you can call the first act, it's setting up the story for what's going to happen in the next 54 pages or so. It's pretty much all dialogue. It's titled "Kings of the Night". Basically it's about a group of teens around 14-15, planning to sneak out of their houses one night and raise all sorts of hell. A lot of the stuff that happens in the movie actually happened to one of my friends or me at one point. Not everything, a lot. What I have so far is kinda dull, but I want to get this part of script evaluated so when the movie starts to get into gear i'll have a better idea of what to do. o.k. well if anybody wants to help an aspiring film maker out and wants to critique my script, email me at vinnyd3000@aol.com and i'll email it to you. Put somthing about the script in the Subject so I don't delete your email on accident. Thanks for anybody whose willing to read it!
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critique I'm 14, writing my first big script, need a critique
- Thread starter vinnyd
- Start date
Demosthenes X said:
I haven't read the script but have seen some Beckett shorts that were all about dialog.
If the dialog is the story then you have to make the visual entising enough for people to WATCH AND LISTEN
I have been taking great notice to the sounds in movies lately. The Coffin scene in Kill Bill Vol2 was one of my favotite scenes of all time, and it was ALL SOUND, on a black screen.
I;ll check out the script if you still need suggestions.
Let me know.
TOTALLY agree with you Rizen... totally...
I make movies to stir up emotions...
One of my fav lines of all time:
"Did you see a sign out in front of my house that said "Dead edited by mgmt. storage"?"
I would never say the word, but am quoting the it from the script.
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QT is not racist...I'm not saying that...
I'm just saying the whole mothers comment is kind of unnecessary and if you think about it- inaccurate.
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I think Riz was saying that I called QT a racist. I wasn't but, I guess it could be interpreted that way.
I agree with you Riz. A character says certain things that maybe the writer doesn't like or think is okay or good (read anything written by Stephen King and you'll get characters saying all sorts of things that Mr. King would disagree with), but what I was trying to say (and rereading my post, I didn't do a very good job of saying it) is that as a writer we should make sure that our readers do not associate what is said by a character with our own opinions. A simple, "Hey, thanks for reading. Just to let you know, there's some language in here from one or more of the characters that I don't agree with, but I felt it was necessary in showing the character's reasoning."
Anyway, the line in question is perfectly fine, and I don't think it makes vinnyd a racist. It is something that a white kid who has a bit of racism in him (and everyone does whether they think so or not) might say in anger.
Poke
PS Let's refrain from using racial slurs on this board even if we aren't using them to be racist ... some might find those words offensive under any circumstances.
I agree with you Riz. A character says certain things that maybe the writer doesn't like or think is okay or good (read anything written by Stephen King and you'll get characters saying all sorts of things that Mr. King would disagree with), but what I was trying to say (and rereading my post, I didn't do a very good job of saying it) is that as a writer we should make sure that our readers do not associate what is said by a character with our own opinions. A simple, "Hey, thanks for reading. Just to let you know, there's some language in here from one or more of the characters that I don't agree with, but I felt it was necessary in showing the character's reasoning."
Anyway, the line in question is perfectly fine, and I don't think it makes vinnyd a racist. It is something that a white kid who has a bit of racism in him (and everyone does whether they think so or not) might say in anger.
Poke
PS Let's refrain from using racial slurs on this board even if we aren't using them to be racist ... some might find those words offensive under any circumstances.
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oh man, sorry i got us all aboard this crazy train...and also, sorry, i wouldve edited my post myself if i knew that was a problem.
anyways, in conclusion...im not racist, im quite sure vinny is also not racist, and qt is definately not racist...
we're losing focus on the thread though, and i thought I'd post to say... sorry vinny, and please continue to request the script or make comments about it.
anyways, in conclusion...im not racist, im quite sure vinny is also not racist, and qt is definately not racist...
we're losing focus on the thread though, and i thought I'd post to say... sorry vinny, and please continue to request the script or make comments about it.
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I never said you called QT a racist, but people do. I think if we're gonna move on past racism, we're gonna have to stop giving power to the words that "hurt" people so much. If i dont take offense to edited by mgmt., edited by mgmt., edited by mgmt.(those wont get censored because you can't be racist against a white man, we're the evil ones) then they can't use those words against me...
I honestly don't think a single black person would get mad at that statement, maybe some "bloods" would but not black people as a race.
whatever it doesn't matter, its his script and when i finish it I'll email him my response.
I honestly don't think a single black person would get mad at that statement, maybe some "bloods" would but not black people as a race.
whatever it doesn't matter, its his script and when i finish it I'll email him my response.
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And cootdog "that line(no use quoting)" kicks a- butt. I used to have it as my avatar on AIM. Its one of THE funniest things I've ever heard.
And i've come to the conclusion this board should probably never debate controversial issues, ever. People are too sensitive(not me) about way too much, everyone needs to calm down, mellow out, and not take life so seriously.
And i've come to the conclusion this board should probably never debate controversial issues, ever. People are too sensitive(not me) about way too much, everyone needs to calm down, mellow out, and not take life so seriously.
The discussion here brings up an interesting point: foul language in scripts. I've joked with a friend of mine (I can now boast that he's an award winning playwright) saying that writers, as a group, have the highest concentration of "voluntary Tourette syndrome."
I contend that foul-language is the refuge of untalented writers. There are many ways to portray character traits without having to sink to that level.
I contend that foul-language is also the refuge of uncouth, inarticulate morons who have haven't mastered advanced concepts like language skill to express themselves... but that's a personal bias.
On the other hand, I've gone into the circular argument that writers use foul language because it reflects reality. Or does the casual use of foul language in media portray it as acceptable in everyday life? That's a tough one to call.
To all the writers, all the creative folks out there, I challenge you to find new and interesting ways to portray the emotions your characters express without resorting to foul language.
I contend that foul-language is the refuge of untalented writers. There are many ways to portray character traits without having to sink to that level.
I contend that foul-language is also the refuge of uncouth, inarticulate morons who have haven't mastered advanced concepts like language skill to express themselves... but that's a personal bias.
On the other hand, I've gone into the circular argument that writers use foul language because it reflects reality. Or does the casual use of foul language in media portray it as acceptable in everyday life? That's a tough one to call.
To all the writers, all the creative folks out there, I challenge you to find new and interesting ways to portray the emotions your characters express without resorting to foul language.
Well everybody uses cuss words in daily life. They're just words after all....i never saw what the big deal was. They're words, words you say, sounds that come from your mouth....i don't understand what is so bad about them. Like, with me : My friends and I cuss with eachother all the time, and the words no Longer have the Shock value they might on some sheltered humans lives...Kind of takes the power away from them eh? Just like nudity in Europe, its not a big deal because people grew up with it, cuss words wouldnt be a big deal if we stopped making them a big deal.
Before I give my personal view on the current subject, can I just remind people that this forum has a strict rule about racist language in postings and although there is no wish to censor anyone within this debate, we will remove any posting that we feel as moderators causes offense. If people can just take a moment to think carefully about any offense they may accidentally cause before posting, we'd appreciate it.
Moderator Clive speaking
OK moderator hat off, the rest of this is my personal take on the issue.
This whole issue of racism and use of racist language is a complicated one, but as filmmakers it's one we are forced to address and make our own moral judgments on.
The question isn't about the words themselves, but how they are used within the context of the story. Let me give you an example:
Last week I was taking a train down to London and as I was waiting on the platform a group of four drunken guys started making fun of a group of Hassidic Jewish families, who tried very, very hard to ignore them. In the end it escalated into the youths shouting stuff about the holocaust and gas chambers. All this in front of people who had probably lost relatives and more importantly in front of their children.
My wife had to physically restrain me from beating the shit out of them and in a sense I still think it would have been better if I had.
Now I can use that incident as part of a story, but I have to choose whether I use it to show that racists are idiots or whether I allow people to walk out of the cinema thinking that what the morons did was OK or cool and all I have to do to achieve that is just to portray it without challenging the behavior or the attitudes.
As a filmmaker I have to ask myself whether the images I create will reinforce the views of racist idiots or whether I can do better than that. In other words I have to take responsibility for the way in which I portray people. It's a moral decision, make your own mind up about it.
However, I do know that most of the black actors I know would give their right arms to be offered a part that did involve them being either a pimp, drug dealer or street gang member and most black actresses I know would give their right arms to play any part that didn't involve them playing whores.
I think with racism it's really simple, you're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem. As filmmakers it is even more important that we understand our role in this.
Moderator Clive speaking
OK moderator hat off, the rest of this is my personal take on the issue.
This whole issue of racism and use of racist language is a complicated one, but as filmmakers it's one we are forced to address and make our own moral judgments on.
The question isn't about the words themselves, but how they are used within the context of the story. Let me give you an example:
Last week I was taking a train down to London and as I was waiting on the platform a group of four drunken guys started making fun of a group of Hassidic Jewish families, who tried very, very hard to ignore them. In the end it escalated into the youths shouting stuff about the holocaust and gas chambers. All this in front of people who had probably lost relatives and more importantly in front of their children.
My wife had to physically restrain me from beating the shit out of them and in a sense I still think it would have been better if I had.
Now I can use that incident as part of a story, but I have to choose whether I use it to show that racists are idiots or whether I allow people to walk out of the cinema thinking that what the morons did was OK or cool and all I have to do to achieve that is just to portray it without challenging the behavior or the attitudes.
As a filmmaker I have to ask myself whether the images I create will reinforce the views of racist idiots or whether I can do better than that. In other words I have to take responsibility for the way in which I portray people. It's a moral decision, make your own mind up about it.
However, I do know that most of the black actors I know would give their right arms to be offered a part that did involve them being either a pimp, drug dealer or street gang member and most black actresses I know would give their right arms to play any part that didn't involve them playing whores.
I think with racism it's really simple, you're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem. As filmmakers it is even more important that we understand our role in this.
clive said:
EXACTLY. It's about your moral judgements as a director, author, actor. If the public doesn't like it, your success will be minimal at best. And you can say all that you want that this is a creative process, and it's all about your vision, but the reality is that your vision is lost if no one watches your work. The old if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound. The answer to that is that no one cares if it did or didn't.
clive said:
From a personal stand point, I'd like to think that I would have gone to a cop or another "offical", and asked for some help, and "reasoned" with the kids in the strongest of ways. I understand the feeling that it's not your fight, and it's none of your business, but bullies are bullies, and whereever they are, they need to be stopped. (Just my opinion) The KKK and Hitler would still be factors in this world if we didn't step up and stop them. (Granted history doesn't QUITE back up our stopping Hitler for being a bully, but close enough!)
clive said:
I agree entirely. In the US now, it seems as if using racial slurs is "okay" if it's your race that you are sluring. Bill Cosby has come out and is trying to speak to his race saying that respect will only be attained if you respect yourself. And show that respect. Spike Lee makes films about "stereotypical" blacks. Rarely is he chastised for that.
Lastly, we have to remember what this thread is all about...a 14 year old asking for help on a script.
As to that: There, they're (they are), their (possessive, belonging to them). In the quotes I saw there was used for their. No big deal, everyone at one time or other does it, but you might want to fix it before you're (you are!) finished.
Chris
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Okay, so Clive read my mind and articulated my thoughts ... It's hard for me to do that being a cave man and all.
In response to the use of foul language in general: I think art imitates life ... and life imitates art. If I am writing about a drug dealer, chances are his language will be a trifle vulgar. Now, little Johnny Donowrong comes along and sees my movie and begins to say certain things that his mommy might not like. You see, in my movie, I imitated life, but little Johnny imitated art.
I don't think that the use of foul language is a sure sign of an untalented writer. Just as I don't think the writer gets a free pass on the matter. I think it's a tight-wire act. You can air on the side of realism or decency or try to keep it in the middle. A writer isn't wrong or untalented for going one way or the other, they just made a moral decision to go one way or the other.
There is one big glaring difference between using those words in a film (to be played in a theater or rented from a video store) and using them on open public forms of entertainment (TV, internet, etc.). If the words are used in a film, you know that the majority (notice majority, not all - I know kids sneak into theaters and people let their kids see movies they as parents know nothing about) of the folks watching it paid to get in knowing what was in it (we have a ratings system, and there are numerous companies devoted to watching every single sordid deatil of those bad films to warn you of their badness). But on TV (which has an inept rating system) and the internet, there's not a whole lot of warning as to what you might come accross. People sat down to watch a football game with their kids a few weeks ago and got a nice view of Nicolette Sheridan's backside (I turned on the game two minutes late ... why do I never get lucky?). Now, we can get into huge discussions about how America is too chaste when it comes to nudity and the human form, but that would be a misdirection from the real point ... which is that people tune into TV, which comes over public airwaves, expecting the fine folks at ABC and CBS to fall on the side of decency. Also, when getting on to Indie Talk, some might be expecting the staff to keep offensive material off the site.
Poke
In response to the use of foul language in general: I think art imitates life ... and life imitates art. If I am writing about a drug dealer, chances are his language will be a trifle vulgar. Now, little Johnny Donowrong comes along and sees my movie and begins to say certain things that his mommy might not like. You see, in my movie, I imitated life, but little Johnny imitated art.
I don't think that the use of foul language is a sure sign of an untalented writer. Just as I don't think the writer gets a free pass on the matter. I think it's a tight-wire act. You can air on the side of realism or decency or try to keep it in the middle. A writer isn't wrong or untalented for going one way or the other, they just made a moral decision to go one way or the other.
There is one big glaring difference between using those words in a film (to be played in a theater or rented from a video store) and using them on open public forms of entertainment (TV, internet, etc.). If the words are used in a film, you know that the majority (notice majority, not all - I know kids sneak into theaters and people let their kids see movies they as parents know nothing about) of the folks watching it paid to get in knowing what was in it (we have a ratings system, and there are numerous companies devoted to watching every single sordid deatil of those bad films to warn you of their badness). But on TV (which has an inept rating system) and the internet, there's not a whole lot of warning as to what you might come accross. People sat down to watch a football game with their kids a few weeks ago and got a nice view of Nicolette Sheridan's backside (I turned on the game two minutes late ... why do I never get lucky?). Now, we can get into huge discussions about how America is too chaste when it comes to nudity and the human form, but that would be a misdirection from the real point ... which is that people tune into TV, which comes over public airwaves, expecting the fine folks at ABC and CBS to fall on the side of decency. Also, when getting on to Indie Talk, some might be expecting the staff to keep offensive material off the site.
Poke
Vinnyd sorry to see your thread completely overrun but this is an excellent discussion. Kinda fun though to see what you started isn't it.
You have brought up some great issue and it has lead to a very interesting exchange. Please do not cheapen your postion by taking offense at the moderaters choice to remove highly charged words. They are not censoring your ideas only removing words they deem inappropriate for their members, as is their right as moderators of a private forum. In fact by removing your posts in there entirety you are the only one guilty of censorship.
Rizien I have to agree with you. They are just words. Words only have power when you give them power. However as cliche as it may sound words are very powerful. And the words you continue to use have already been giving tremendous power. Are you right to think that using them regulary weakens them? Absolutley. Their power comes from the way they have been used in the past. Changing the way they are used, changing their conotations, weakens the word. It unfortunatly doesn't weaken the hate, the intolerance, that gave power to these words in the first place.
You have brought up some great issue and it has lead to a very interesting exchange. Please do not cheapen your postion by taking offense at the moderaters choice to remove highly charged words. They are not censoring your ideas only removing words they deem inappropriate for their members, as is their right as moderators of a private forum. In fact by removing your posts in there entirety you are the only one guilty of censorship.
vinnyd, well done for starting to write the screenplay. I'm 15 years old and I still haven't yet plucked up the courage to start writing a feature properly. The important thing is to get the script written, and then come back to it with a fresh eye and be ruthless. Remember to be true to your story. If you'd like me to critique it for you I'd love to give it a read. My name is Alex, and I'll be emailing you (lexus47@msn.com) soon. Remember: keep writing!
Poke said:
You know, in my head I said Spike Jones, and laughed at myself (I THINK there was a Spike Jones who was a musician of funny songs), and then said to myself, of course I mean Spike Lee...and then obviously typed Spike Jones anyway!!
Thanks Poke, I edited the change!
Chris
Lol, wow I checked out the post in school today, and the first thing I saw was somebody say somthing about being racist, the first thing that popped into my head was what people were saying about QT, before I even read what you guys said about him. Anyway, I just wanted to mention, that to remember that all the characters in this movie are based on my friends. Am I racist? No, I have lots of black friends. However, I do know that some of my friends, they aren't neccesarily racist, but they've watched a little more BET than is good for them, so they've made judgements about black people of the inner city, that is wrong. I wanted to add a little more realism to the movie, they always say "write what you know", and I know my friends well, and I'm sure this specific friend of mine would probably feel this way. So, will I leave the part of the movie in there? Yes, if anything it adds controversy and if pulp fiction, the godfather, and the Passion have taught us anything, its that controversy only helps the film in the long run. (most times anyway.) Well if anybody is still interested in the script i'm still open for suggestions.
Don't forget Fahrenheit 9/11. Hee hee. Michael Moore made sooo much off controversy.
Daaammnn, you guys are between 14 and 16 and already into the aesthetics and structure of the classic narrative. Let's see, I believed in Santa Claus till I was 12, and then my kid sister had to tell me he wasn't real. At 14, I had my first raving crush and at 16 I had my first 'real' kiss. I must be getting old because all I want to mull over is the fantastic. 