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I want to light a BIG room with Kinos?

M

mike barlas

Hi everybody.


My question is can i light a 30ft x 15ft x 15ft interior with dark walls m with three four bank Kino's?

I want to create an ambient moody light source for the background for a wide shot
and keep then move in the Kino's for the medium and close up shots.


I plan to put the kino's 10 ft high aimed down on the west wall, and shoot primarily on the east
wall.


At 10ft they luminate 32fc or 356 lux. I can't visualize this number, and I have no time to test.

Is my approach logical or should I just bounce two 750 open face arri's off white?

Any help would be most appreciated.

Cheers
Mike
 
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When you say that you want to light the whole room with "moody light", what are you describing? Can you post pictures or clips of the mood that you are after? If you want full exposure on dark walls in a room that size, you are not going to make it with 3 Kino banks. Decide what you want lit in the room and light for that effect.
 
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Hi Lucky,

It's a fair question.

The light will be coming from one direction. I want the light to look almost hazy, with not much shadow fall off,
except in far off corners. Overall I don't want dark shadows, but I don't want the room light fully. It would be nice if some rim light spilled on the sides of the actors.

Here is an example:
I am not sure if this is how you post images.

17517635974396399682.png


Let me know if this helps.
*Also worth noting, I have one day and we need to shoot 20 shots. So
I want the Kino's in ONE spot for wide shots, then a second spot for Med shots and close ups. Worth mentioning, there is a white film screen about 12 ft x 12ft that is on one of the 15ft walls.

Cheers.
Mike
 
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Sure, you could use Kinos. You could use just about any light if you know what you want and how to get it.

What's your question? I'm not 100% sure what you want? You mention 'dark and moody' but from the sounds of it you just want some sort of ambient fill, which is not really what I'd call dark and moody, but to each their own.

Kinos are inherently soft, and if I'm going for dark and moody, I'll probably reach for a dedo before a Kino as a key, though depends on the room, the set, etc.
 
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Hi Jax,

Thanks for responding to my message.

To clarify,

I am trying to create an ambient slightly underexposed light in the background, where details
are visible. But the room is NOT fully lit.

Similar to the background in the image I attached.
Ignore the color cast please.

I want to use the Kino 4 Banks to light the background only, but
I wouldn't mind some of that background light spilling on the sides of the actors, such as in the photo.

Hope this makes sense.

Mike
 
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What camera and lenses are you shooting on?

I assume you're talking about 4ft 4-banks? You might want to put some 1/4 diff over them, or some other light diffusion that will even it out a tad.

If you're only lighting one wall, I feel like you'll be okay, though it depends on the camera/ISO and T-stop you'll be shooting at. If you're trying to have all walls in play at once being lit, you might start to struggle.
 
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Hi Jax,

Yeah I am using 4'4 Banks thanks. I have some Lee 250 half white diffusion to put on.

We are shooting on Canon C100 at ISO 850, T-stop not sure, most likely in the middle of the lens.

I plan to rig the Kino's parallel about 5 ft apart and about 10ft high pointing down. On say the east wall and shoot against the opposing west wall and the middle of the room.

I hope to keep the Kino's stationary, we have to shoot 20 plus shots in one day.
Me and my grip can focus on moving the key and fill lights for each light set up.



Cheers,
Mike
 
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Sounds like you'll get away with it then.

I can't quite visualize it in my head. I assume you mean you'll rig them above the east wall, and shoot towards the east wall (i.e. actors in front of the wall and in middle of the room, camera looking towards actors and east wall?

Sounds like you're either going to be lighting the east wall and then shooting towards the opposite wall - a wall that would be unlit, blank and dark?
Or perhaps you mean you're going to be using the kinos to light the actors, rather than simply the background?
Or are you going to use the east wall as a bounce..?
 
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Hi Jax,

I want to rig the Kino's in front of the east wall facing the west wall. So they will light west wall and maybe act as a rim light on the actors which scenes will be closer to the centre of the room.

The actors will be lit with a couple of fresnel Arri's, a key 1k and a 650 fill.

The north wall isn't critical to light, and the south wall has a 13x13 ft white movie screen, which can come off and use as a bounce. Maybe on the ceiling?

Hope I am making sense?

Cheers,
Mike
 
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If you are just using the Kinos for lighting the background, sure you can do it. I know that you said you don't have time to test, but I would seriously recommend setting aside a small chunk of time to make certain that you have the exposure on the background right before committing to the setup. Remember the inverse square law.
 
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3 4'-4 bank Kino's will get you an exposure, though depends what T-stop you want to shoot at.

My gut feeling (without seeing the space, without knowing the blocking or anything - which makes it tough ;)) would be that I'd probalby want the Kino's rigged more toppy - closer to the wall being shot against, rigged above the actors between them and the background pointing down and angled to the direction you want them to point. Doors opened probably most of the way to ensure best coverage of the bg, as well as higher potential to hit the actors as a rim.
Probably rigged parallel long-ways, with maybe 4' or so between them.

From the sounds of it, the way you plan to rig it you might potentially be in danger of providing the actors with too much front fill, and/or creating shadows on the background.

Another potential issue is the exposure you'll get out of your lights for your actors. Your Kino gets ~32fc at 10' which at 800 ISO should give you about 4 1/2 as your stop for the background.

At 10ft, at 800ISO, a 650 Arri fresnel spotted halfway gives you 228fc, which will give you 11 1/4 as your stop, the 1k will give you somewhere around 358fc @ 800 ISO (half-spot, 10ft), giving you a stop of just under 16.

With this in mind, you might want to start thinking about scrim options or NDs - or whether you're happy for your actors to be 3-4 stops+ over the background light, and how that sits with the cameras latitude. Also depends on your space - how far away can your lights be? Can they be further than 10ft, or are they going to have to be closer, making your actors even brighter?
 
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Hi Jax and Lucky,

You two raise some good points, and I thank you for your input.

*I need to decide how much stop difference I want between my background and foreground.
I'm thinking one stop normal for the highlights and two for my dramatic shots.
I can't go too far back with my Arri lights, the room is 15ft wide. Most likely the lights will be closer
than 10ft.
I have some 250 diffusion I can double up on the 650, but might not get me enough stops.
I forgot to mention I can add a dimmer on the 1k Arri. OOps ;(


*I could rig the Kino's on the ceiling in the centre of the room pointing down, in between the actors and wall. But I think I like the look of the light coming from the side but more above rather than from directly above. Like in the photo I attached from the movie Romper Stompers.

*Looks like in the photo there is a side light as the Key which is
lighting the background as well. With some fill or bounce in the foreground.

I think for some of the medium and close up shots, I can move one kino to light the background from
the side. That way I can get some rim light on the actors and adjust the barn door to control spill.
And get some texture on the bricks.

*I have attached a photo of the room I am shooting in. Minus the crap in it.

I plan to light the wide shots first, then move in with the Kino's for the medium
and close up shots.



cinecycle5.jpg


I appreciate all of the help!
Please Let me know If I am making sense. :huh:

Cheers, :lol:
Mike
 
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Hey Mike,
I'm in Toronto. When and where are you shooting?

I've got a similar problem, in terms of making the background not look lit, but details being visible. But my room has a lot of ambient light from large windows. If you're shooting sometime in October in or near Toronto, let me know. I'd love to be a PA on your set. And if you don't need PAs, I'd just love to drop by to see how you do it.
Best,
Aveek
 
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Hi trueindie,

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, it was pretty chaotic. I had to figure out my own story board for the film.

Which went surprisingly well for my first time as DOP.The, kino's did the trick but they can be hard to use at first, but I like the quality of light they give.

Yes Jax kino's weren't very bright at all! EVen three 4' 4 banks!
Yeah the 1k arri was SUPER hot, I had to diffuse big time, lol.
You were dead on about the lighting advice.
Thanks again Jax and Lucky for the advice, it was mucho help ful.

Cheers,
Mike
 
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