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how would you help a beginner scriptwriter?

Nikki Malkavian Z-boy

Nikki Malkavian Z-boy

hey people!

i'm one step closer to start writing my first script. problem is, i put my random ideas in an order, but now i don't know where to begin from. i have the imagination but i lack the know-how of putting a story together. that's a pity, when i was in elementary school i used to write awesome stories. :D

anyway, what would you suggest? any books? free online courses or something would be great, but i'm probably asking for too much. enlighten me! :lol:
 
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I was helped by the 3-act theory, its the most know rule how a drama(?) works - its always helps me in saying - I need a starting point for a conflict, 2 plotpoints to change the conflicts matter or let it escalate, and 3 the ending point where the actions of the starting point and the reasons for the starting point is explained ( or at least in my mind )

- maybe if youre uncommon with that U can take a look at that and see if it helps you, cant recommend any books tough, I always went to local libaries to see what they have ( whats mostly none around here)
 
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Let's say you want to build a house, but you know nothing about laying a foundation, framing, drywall, plumbing, electrical wiring, etc. You have two options. You can immerse yourself in learning about those things, and then build your house. Or you can grab the nearest hammer and box of nails and start banging away and hope you'll learn something as you go.

Up to you.
 
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Adeimantus said:
Let's say you want to build a house, but you know nothing about laying a foundation, framing, drywall, plumbing, electrical wiring, etc. You have two options. You can immerse yourself in learning about those things, and then build your house. Or you can grab the nearest hammer and box of nails and start banging away and hope you'll learn something as you go.

Up to you.
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I know what you're trying to say, but that's a slightly false analogy there! Apart from anything else, the OP won't lose anything (other than perhaps a little time) by just writing, which is not quite the same as the investment and risk involved in ill-advised amateur DIY housebuilding. Furthermore, storytelling (unlike housebuilding) is an ability that many people - I would say most people - have already. The same goes for writing (as in putting words on paper in some meaningful order). And the most fun part of writing a story is actually writing the story. The subsequent rewriting, restructuring etc is the tedious part.

So I'd say to the OP: work out what your story is - characters, key scenes, basic structure - then just throw yourself into writing. Chances are the first draft of your first script will be pretty bad, but that's the first step you have to take... and then get feedback and act on that feedback. That's the time to start looking into things that can be improved - once you've discovered where your first draft was weak.

Good luck :)
 
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No analogy is perfect. The perfect analogy would be the thing itself, and then it wouldn't be an analogy. Anyone can build a house. Not everyone can build a good house. Anyone can tell a story. Not everyone can tell a good story.

Time is not unimportant. Yes, there are some things to be said for learning by trial and error, but saving time is not one of them. I prefer to save time (and effort). Perhaps to someone else it matters not at all. Which is why I said "Up to you."
 
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Adeimantus said:
No analogy is perfect. The perfect analogy would be the thing itself, and then it wouldn't be an analogy.
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That's true, but it's possible to use a more apt, fitting analogy rather than one where the stakes are so wildly different. It just undermines your point :)

Anyone can build a house. Not everyone can build a good house.
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I think this is BS, really. If I had to build a house right now, with the same amount of training or subject-specific education I had as when I started writing scripts... well, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

I'm reminded of the classic quote from Red Dwarf:

HOLLY: I was thinking it might help pass the time if I created a
perfectly functioning replica of a woman, capable of independent
decision-making and abstract thought and absolutely undetectable from
the real thing.
LISTER: (Sitting up eagerly) Well why don't you, then?
HOLLY: Because I don't know how. I wouldn't even know how to make the
nose. Heh.
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There is a baseline level of education and training and skills that you need to have before you even contemplate building a house. Whereas my niece used to tell me stories when she was three.



Anyone can tell a story. Not everyone can tell a good story.
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I agree. But one path to telling a good story well is to tell a good story to the best of your ability, however badly that may be, and then improve it.

Time is not unimportant. Yes, there are some things to be said for learning by trial and error, but saving time is not one of them. I prefer to save time (and effort). Perhaps to someone else it matters not at all. Which is why I said "Up to you."
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Fair enough. But sadly time is essential. Learning a craft requires time, whether that's time spent studying how to do things right before having a go and still getting some things wrong the first time; or having a go and getting lots of things wrong, and then learning how to put them right the next time.

:)
 
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maz said:
There is a baseline level of education and training and skills that you need to have before you even contemplate building a house. Whereas my niece used to tell me stories when she was three.
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I'd wager that around the same age she'd pile up pillows and make an impromptu fort.

A pillow fort is essentially a house without experience and training; flimsy and unreliable, but the basic principles are there. Same as with storytelling.
 
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i have Aristotle's "Poetics" in .pdf, a director friend of mine suggested it to me. he said if i read it, i will understand the way that films are written like (intro, hero's life, turning point, catharsis in the end, etc.). what do you think about that?

also, i believe that the real problem with my current script is that it's not a short one, but a universe which i intend to expand and "keep it alive" (it will become a series or a film with many sequels), which requires lots of planning and thinking. now you will tell me: "start from something small and amateur for practice." well, i don't have a problem writing and shooting ANY kind of film, it's just that i don't have limits when i write, my brain thinks big. all i need is a small push to get me going, whether it's help from like-minded people or study some books and articles, etc.

tell me if you know any writer who digs noir/neo-noir/goth films, will ya? :yes:

thanks a trillion for your time, fellas! :)
 
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Caidh Mor said:
I'd wager that around the same age she'd pile up pillows and make an impromptu fort.

A pillow fort is essentially a house without experience and training; flimsy and unreliable, but the basic principles are there. Same as with storytelling.
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That's really clutching at straws, and again, is inaccurate but I don't want to divert the thread further on my pedantic tangent about a poor analogy so let's agree to disagree and get back to the matter at hand :)

OP, if you want to make it into a series then you have to plan further: sketch out key scenes as you see them from beginning to end of the entire story whether that will be told across 2 hours of a movie or 30 hours of a series. You have to know where you start, and ultimately where you're going. That's not to say that you have to write the whole story out at this stage. But you need to know what happens when and to whom at key points.

I've been interested in writing for a web series for a long time, so feel free to PM me!
 
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OP, if you want to make it into a series then you have to plan further: sketch out key scenes as you see them from beginning to end of the entire story whether that will be told across 2 hours of a movie or 30 hours of a series. You have to know where you start, and ultimately where you're going. That's not to say that you have to write the whole story out at this stage. But you need to know what happens when and to whom at key points.

I've been interested in writing for a web series for a long time, so feel free to PM me![/QUOTE]


ok bro, thanks for the advices! i sent you a PM and i also added you in my contacts, here in the forum. :)

i also have to clear out that my current universe is like a graphic novel/comic series, it's about many stories that occur in a city which i created. i don't know yet the final result of this project (series or films with many sequels) and i also don't have a problem, the only thing i'm sure about is that it won't finish fast. :D and this is the difficult part. i can write stories, but they must be so many that i'm having a hard time putting them together in order for them to make sense, as well as "serving" the plot, characters, etc.

anyone link me up maybe with any helpful articles, videos, forum's threads, or something? of course i googled, but it only confused me more. -.-

again i'm sorry if i sound weird, i'm just going through a happy but exhausting phase these days (my wife gave birth 12 days ago and we can't get enough sleep! :lol:) and i can't focus very well.

cheerz buds!
 
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Nikki Malkavian Z-boy said:
i have Aristotle's "Poetics" in .pdf, a director friend of mine suggested it to me. he said if i read it, i will understand the way that films are written like (intro, hero's life, turning point, catharsis in the end, etc.). what do you think about that?

also, i believe that the real problem with my current script is that it's not a short one, but a universe which i intend to expand and "keep it alive" (it will become a series or a film with many sequels), which requires lots of planning and thinking. now you will tell me: "start from something small and amateur for practice." well, i don't have a problem writing and shooting ANY kind of film, it's just that i don't have limits when i write, my brain thinks big. all i need is a small push to get me going, whether it's help from like-minded people or study some books and articles, etc.

tell me if you know any writer who digs noir/neo-noir/goth films, will ya? :yes:

thanks a trillion for your time, fellas! :)
Click to expand...

"I will understand the way that...( ) what do you think about that?"...

What do YOU think about that? It doesn't matter what I think about that because my thoughts like anybody elses thoughts here really kind of apply to my or their style of writing...we all have favourite ways of structuring stories, introducing our twists and plots etc etc...so all that really matters here is what do YOU think about that? Does that make sense to you? If so, use it...if it does not, put it down and find a layout that does...


"don't have a problem writing and shooting ANY kind of film, it's just that i don't have limits when i write..."

No but your pocket has limits. Your budget, and casting is limited, as is your CGI to make vast galaxies etc. Can you financially afford to write what you are trying to write...we say to start small, not just because its an easier bite sized chunk to begin with, but also because of the budget....write something you can afford to film.


Reading books teaches you how to read....writing your own teaches you how to write...yes you can learn more on youtube about camera techniques, lighting, sound etc etc etc but right now your only task is to write...so write...just begin...don't be scared. If you have a story, it will come, if you don't, that's ok too, just walk away from it and sit back down in a day, a week, a month whenever your story is back in your head.

All the best.
 
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Nikki Malkavian Z-boy said:
hey people!

i'm one step closer to start writing my first script. problem is, i put my random ideas in an order, but now i don't know where to begin from. i have the imagination but i lack the know-how of putting a story together. that's a pity, when i was in elementary school i used to write awesome stories. :D

anyway, what would you suggest? any books? free online courses or something would be great, but i'm probably asking for too much. enlighten me! :lol:
Click to expand...

can only speak for myself....I took up Screen writing last Summer. COmpleted my first Screenplay (feature)...best advice to intitally complete it, was from reading as much as I could about structure / developing characters etc from using google searches for articles, interviews with Directors etc....Also, by reading tons of other screenplays (both on this site from members scripts, and scripts of known films), it gave me an idea of layout......I used the 3 act rule at beginning, which is a great starter

When I completed my first draft, I put the first 5 pages on this site for advice...rightly so, I got some harsh critisms, but without them, I wouldn't have been able to improve my script (oyu don't get anywere by being given half as truths)....When I completed my Screenplay, I got a Professional Script Consultant to review it....I have actually framed his report...It completely tore my Screenplay to shreds, but he gave me advice on how to improve my screenplay....took on board his advice, and 6weeks later I met him again, and I think was impressed with my improvement

Im now completing a Screenplay for a 3 part series, and finding myself asking the right questions of my script

So my advice

Read whatever you can on structure / character development etc

COmplete first draft

Put first 3-5 pages on here for critique

Complete Screenplay

Hire a Script Consultant if possible or there is plenty of helpful people on this site, who would possibly review it for free (don't ask a friend, get someone in the know)

Just keep writing

Goodluck
 
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For me, the Story is God. If you had to pick sides to get killed on the battlefield over, I would gladly sacrifice my life for the Story. For me, good stories never take more than 1-week to write (although, I can go six months or 1-year between them).

Stories usually come from a still life I experience in life – the bus, the park, standing in line at the grocery store, etc. I wrote a screenplay – not filmed, yet - about black chain gang convicts working on the turpentine industry in the 1930’s called TURPENTINE. The story came to me while I was splitting some pine firewood that was covered with sap. The sap smelled really strong like turpentine.

Once the story comes to me, I ask myself the question: How do you want people to feel about the Story? For example, for TURPENTINE I wanted people to feel the bitter suffering of forgotten, anonymous black chain gang convicts. The answer to that question determines if the Story is a comedy, a drama, action, etc.

Once I have the Story figured out, I put the story in my “pipeline,” beginning with research and crazy note-taking on bar napkins, etc. I’m old school, so always carry a Memo notebook in my back pocket. Then crunch these notes into an outline that includes the characters – including their mannerisms - and key pieces of dialog. I always begin at the ending – to make sure the Story leaves people feeling the way I wanted them to - and work my way backwards in the standard 3 act format.

Most times the outline evolves into something big enough to cut-and-paste into Final Draft and then I expand it into whatever size it needs to be. To me, when the Story has been told and I’m in danger of gilding the lily, a little timer will go off DING! You’re done. Let 'er go and move on.
 
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