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How to get the Lighting I want

I have watched countless videos and read tones of websites on lighting for scenes. I have to say I'm kinda over whelmed by the amount of info just on lighting.
So how do I get the lighting I want without wasting all the time of all the good people trying to help me?

Does anyone know of any websites or books that have info on lighting broken down to make it easier( or to learn the best way) to do so?

Thanks WAX
 
Whats your job? DOP, Director, Producer?

I'm kinda a one man operation I have a another friend at times, we share a lot of duties but I really like how lighting can change the look of the video so much. I really want to mess around with it there is just so much info. I need to simplify it for my self a bit.
 
I really like how lighting can change the look of the video so much.

It can. Don't discount the value of a good color grade. It's a good idea to learn what you need to do in camera and what you should do in post.

I really want to mess around with it there is just so much info. I need to simplify it for my self a bit.

I'd suggest taking a video tutorial and try the situation they describe in the tutorial. Experiment within that situation to try to achieve a different result. Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't. Sometimes the change will go the way you expected, sometimes you'll get a different result than expected. This is part of your learning curve.

Go and do another tutorial and go through the previous process and continue to learn.

The thing about lighting is it's situational. You need to learn the basics and then need to learn how to adjust to the situations that pop up.
 
It can. Don't discount the value of a good color grade. It's a good idea to learn what you need to do in camera and what you should do in post.

Go and do another tutorial and go through the previous process and continue to learn.

The thing about lighting is it's situational. You need to learn the basics and then need to learn how to adjust to the situations that pop up.

Hey Sweetie thanks for the info, this brings up a few other questions.

How do I know what I can do pre and what I can do post for lighting?

I plan to do as many test shots as possible and see what I can do. I do plan to put up some lighting test shots to get some feed as to what I may need to change.

I'm not sure what you mean by situational? do you mean environment wise or style of the footage?(or I missed the mark and its something completely different)

Thanks Sweetie

WAX
 
In my opinion, the best way to learn lighting is by doing. Whether that's volunteering as an electric for an experienced Gaffer, or simply renting a few lights and playing around with them with your camera set up. No video tutorial or written material can ever take the place of on-set experience and first-hand use.


Lighting is visual, and personally I think it helps to be hands-on and visual with it. You can read all you want about how the bigger a source is, the softer it gets (and vice versa), but until you see it with your own eyes it can be hard to comprehend.
Video tutorials may help, but I've never really seen any that have broken down lighting in a way that I would be interested to watch it and be able to learn how to approach lighting a scene (and not just an interview - though most lighting setups are based somewhat around the traditional key, fill, back in some way).
I also suggest buying a light meter, and starting right from basic 3-point lighting setups.
 
How do I know what I can do pre and what I can do post for lighting?

As Jax said, experimentation and experience.

I'm not sure what you mean by situational? do you mean environment wise or style of the footage?(or I missed the mark and its something completely different)

Environment, style... Hell, even different equipment can turn it situational. There's a difference between what you can do with a camera that can capture 10 stops of dynamic range than a camera that can capture 14 or more. Bitrate, whether it's 4:4:4, 4:2:1 etc. It all can alter what you can do in post and change what you have to do in camera.
 
There's a difference between what you can do with a camera that can capture 10 stops of dynamic range than a camera that can capture 14 or more.

Can you explain what you mean by stops? never heard that used before in talking about film.

Bitrate, whether it's 4:4:4, 4:2:1 etc. It all can alter what you can do in post and change what you have to do in camera.

I have seen these types of specs before(4:4:4 and such) but I don't understand what they fully mean. Can you explain these as well?

Thanks Sweetie


WAX
 
Can you explain what you mean by stops? never heard that used before in talking about film.
I have seen these types of specs before(4:4:4 and such) but I don't understand what they fully mean. Can you explain these as well?

I could do a hack job of explaining it, but I'm going to refer you to google. Google Is Your Friend (GIYF). You've been pointed in a direction, it's up to you to either follow that direction and dig deep or bury your head in the sand and expect to be spoon fed. It's only my opinion, those who need to be spoon fed don't last long in this industry.

These forums are great for people who have done their research and are just stuck and need a prod in the right direction or need a little course correction. I'm happy to point or push, but hand holding... that's just weird.

These are all things you're going to have to learn and experiment with if you're going to become a great DOP.
 
I did google it and the info I found didn't explain it very well. Just thought I would ask people who would know. Sorry for trying to get a better explanation on the "newbie" portion of a inde film making forum site. It will never happen again.

WAX
 
http://vimeo.com/videoschool/archive/lighting/all

I'm thinking 4:4:4 is a camera type or it has something to do with quality and color? If there actual definitions of what 4:4:4 ment that would be helpful. How are you supposed to gain insight when you dont know the subject.

Someone saying giyf when your not even sure how to search something is useless especially with film. I come from a cs background where you can find everything on google. You can't fond everything on film. Just my op
 
4:4:4 refers to bit depth captured by the camera. Specifically it refers to the bit depth the camera's codec captures as almost universally the cameras sensor is able to capture better bit depth than the codec employed by the camera.

4:4:4 is also referred to as 12 bit.

Watch this, it'll teach you a lot about color depth, and how codecs work:
https://vimeo.com/104554788


Now, that said.. it has really nothing to do with the original question about lighting. How do you achieve a specific look? Well, practice. Find a shot from something that you like.. try to mimic that shot by recreating the lighting on your own. That's a great place to start.
 
4:4:4 refers to bit depth captured by the camera.

4:4:4 has noting to do with bit depth, I think you're confusing it with something else.

When you see references to numbers like 4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:1:1, etc these are basically ratios indicating the number of samples stored per color channel in each frame of your video.

In video color and brightness information is encoded in three channels - generally denoted as "YUV" - with "Y" representing the luminance (brightness) and "U" and "V" representing chrominance (color) information.

The process of video compression involves discarding information from the signal that is not likely to be visible to the viewer. The human eye is most sensitive to changes in luminance and much less sensitive to changes in chrominance. Thus, the first step in image compression is generally to reduce the amount of data stored for the chrominance channels because it's not likely to be missed by the viewer.

So with 4:4:4 color sampling each line of four pixels in the image has four pixels in each of the three channels - this is 'uncompressed' as far as the channels are concerned (other types of compression may still be applied to the image later in the pipeline).

With 4:2:2 each four pixel segment stores four pixels in the Y channel and only two pixels each for the U and V channels. This reduces the total data you need to store by 33%.

As you've probably guessed, 4:1:1 has only one pixel in the U and V channels for every four in the Y channel. Now we've cut the total data in half.

The one odd (and slightly confusing) exception to this is 4:2:0, which is a common color sampling format for many consumer/prosumer video formats. By the normal logic of the other ratios you would expect this to indicate four pixels of Y, two of U, and no V - but that would result in an image that looked completely wrong. 4:2:0 is actually a variation on 4:1:1 - it just alternates the chrominance samples across two adjacent lines. So the first four pixels of your first line have four pixels in Y, two in U, and none in V; the first four pixels of your second line have four Y, no U, and two V. This results in exactly the same number of total samples as 4:1:1 and has the equivalent 50% data reduction.

This reduction is just the first step in the compression pipeline. By reducing the initial amount of data you allow the next step in the process to work more efficiently, which generally results in fewer visible errors in the final compressed video. Thus for cameras that compress to a low-to-moderate bit rate it's common to use at most 4:2:2, and more commonly 4:1:1 or 4:2:0, in order to improve the overall visual appearance of the compressed video.

Compression is always a trade-off between file size and picture quality. Reducing the color channel information generally works well because our eyes aren't particularly sensitive to it - but there are situations where it can introduce visible errors. For instance, 4:2:0 works great for most natural scenes, but shoot in a nightclub lit primarily by strongly saturated blue or red lights and you'll get an image that looks soft and blocky because there's not enough pixels in the color channels to accurately represent the detail in the scene - so for a specific situation like that you may need to select a camera that records at least 4:2:2. Color keying - green or blue screen - relies on the color information to create a clean separation of the subject from the foreground; the more information you have in the color signal the better the end result. So for projects that rely heavily on chroma keying it may be worth selecting a camera setup that records a full 4:4:4 signal - often this will require a tethered computer or recorder because it's uncommon for a camera to do it on board.

As far as it relates to the original topic of lighting... in general, it doesn't really. Unless, of course, you're lighting a scene primarily with highly saturated red or blue lights.
 
My advice, get some lights, find a shot you'd like to do and start playing around with the lights. If you can't get an actor, go buy a foam wig head and use that as your model. Study some films and try to re-create the lighting from a shot you like.

Scott
 
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