How to CORRECTLY record a whisper and an out-loud shout

[Re-Maker]

I am after a basis rule and technique on production sound recording. I am playing with my sound gear, namely Zoom mic/recorder, NTG-2 and MK-012 mics. I like the quality, it is very accurate, I feel semi-pro level of this equipment. However, I do lack some general rules that must be followed.

I don't want to make a long list of dry questions, but rather put forward a task as in the subject line.
So, how to correctly record someone whispering some words (task 1) and someone yelling, shouting and crying out loud (task 2)? Both tasks to be completed INT and EXT.

My intention is to master extremes so not to make silly mistakes during production stage.

...
Although I did not plan to put a list of questions, but it seems that I have to.

ZOOM H4n
1) Sound recorded through a built-in mics is STEREO = L and R. When I plug an external mic, like NTG or MK-012 the recorded sound is mono. Is it possible to record a stereo sound from a single external mic? I think it will be a pseudo-stereo... I found it annoying to listen to a recorded MONO sound, since it plays back in one ear only.

2) During recording, the button, indicating currently active input channel, is ON. Sometimes if a recording sound is loud or high pitched the button's light starts to flicker. Does this indicate that sound is recorded badly?

3) Is there a difference between +dB level and microphone record level?

4) What recording format must be selected to have no issues during sound sync with 24p video?


MK-012
I have purchase exactly this microphone. It has THREE heads that can be thread on to the base. If you carefully look at the picture on the link you can notice different SYMBOLS on these heads. Technical papers came with this mic states them as CIRCLE, HYPER-CARDIOID and CARDIOID. What are they for, because my ear cannot feel any differences.

What type of exercise would you recommend to practice production sound recording? Just go out and start to record everything?

There is certainly some criteria to judge and distinguish a good recorded sound from a bad one. If it is a speech then anyone listening to it must clearly hear and understand it. If it is a sound of some action, then it should sound as it is in a real life situation. There may be sounds that you wouldn't hear normally, but that's apart from field-sound recording.

 

[M1chae1]

Keep the mic as close as you can during quiet and normal moments. Level up to a good solid reading.

When yelling, pull the mic back and ask the actor to do a test at 'full volume'...keep testing until it doesn't peak...and then lower it more (the actor probably will get louder during the take).

This should give you good audio in a nut shell. If Alcove wants to get more detailed, that would be groovy.

 

[knightly]

I would actually venture a guess that simply turning down the volume for the louder and keeping the distance the same would serve you better. The sound changes with distance as the air and environment gets hold of the waves.

If you can figure out how to pseudo-stereo the input, balance them at different levels, so the yells can be recorded in the same pass, just used from the quieter track when it gets to that point of the dialog track.

 

[gpforet]

It is fair game to ask the talent to whisper a bit louder. I actually experimented with this, and having the actor just add some air to their voice, but still speak at a normal level makes a world of difference.

That being said, many actors, especially those who've never trained for stage, do tend to whisper, and actually get even softer during a take than during a scene rehearsal. I have several times gone to the director and asked if the actors could speak a little louder to get good level. It does take some reminding from time to time.

Regarding the shouting, as others have said, be ready on your gain knob and drop it quickly, anticipating the shout, which I'm sure you've noticed is never at the same level from take to take. I run with my limiters on, although I try to keep the levels below limiter threshold, but it's good to know it's there in case I get surprised with a loud level.

Welcome to location sound, it's never boring.

I am after a basis rule and technique on production sound recording. I am playing with my sound gear, namely Zoom mic/recorder, NTG-2 and MK-012 mics. I like the quality, it is very accurate, I feel semi-pro level of this equipment. However, I do lack some general rules that must be followed.

I don't want to make a long list of dry questions, but rather put forward a task as in the subject line.
So, how to correctly record someone whispering some words (task 1) and someone yelling, shouting and crying out loud (task 2)? Both tasks to be completed INT and EXT.

My intention is to master extremes so not to make silly mistakes during production stage.

...
Although I did not plan to put a list of questions, but it seems that I have to.

ZOOM H4n
1) Sound recorded through a built-in mics is STEREO = L and R. When I plug an external mic, like NTG or MK-012 the recorded sound is mono. Is it possible to record a stereo sound from a single external mic? I think it will be a pseudo-stereo... I found it annoying to listen to a recorded MONO sound, since it plays back in one ear only.

2) During recording, the button, indicating currently active input channel, is ON. Sometimes if a recording sound is loud or high pitched the button's light starts to flicker. Does this indicate that sound is recorded badly?

3) Is there a difference between +dB level and microphone record level?

4) What recording format must be selected to have no issues during sound sync with 24p video?


MK-012
I have purchase exactly this microphone. It has THREE heads that can be thread on to the base. If you carefully look at the picture on the link you can notice different SYMBOLS on these heads. Technical papers came with this mic states them as CIRCLE, HYPER-CARDIOID and CARDIOID. What are they for, because my ear cannot feel any differences.

What type of exercise would you recommend to practice production sound recording? Just go out and start to record everything?

There is certainly some criteria to judge and distinguish a good recorded sound from a bad one. If it is a speech then anyone listening to it must clearly hear and understand it. If it is a sound of some action, then it should sound as it is in a real life situation. There may be sounds that you wouldn't hear normally, but that's apart from field-sound recording.

 

[M1chae1]

Perhaps on a whisper actors get softer during a take, and during a yell, they get louder. Both extremes. Seems right to me.

Turning it down on a yell sometimes isn't enough...sometimes you have to pull the mic away a little also.

 

[Alcove Audio]

The Zoom -

It's been quite a while since I fooled around with the Zoom but if I remember correctly...

1. You have to change the recording mode so that it records an external mono mic signal onto two tracks - that will solve the "one ear" problem. I believe that it's one of the MTR modes. You should be able to adjust the individual track levels so that one track records quieter than the other. You will only use one mono track in audio post, so the quieter track is a "safety" track that will not peak on excessive transients (gunshots or when someone yells/screams, etc). I think that there is a mono monitoring (headphone) mode that will put all signals in the center of the stereo field.

2. I think that the blinking light indicates clipping (channel overload causing distortion).

3. None that I am aware of. db is Decibels which is a loudness measurement. For example, normal conversation about 60db - 70db, 125db is the threshold of pain. I don't remember if the H4n has a negative db pad (i.e. -20db pad).

4. You are always going to have drift issues; the longer the take, the more the possible drift. On anything under five minutes drift should be negligible (milliseconds).

The MK-012 -

The capsules each have different polar or pick-up patterns. They will all sound the same but will pick up the audio source differently. The hyper capsule is usually the best one for production sound work.

A decent article on mics and polar patterns:

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/studio-microphones/buying-guide.php

 

[Hammerstone]

It sounds like your biggest problem is that you have no VU meters. I'm no expert on syncing video and audio but have you thought about getting some kind of dedicated audio recording device? Something like this? Of course, that's brand new and I always go for used myself, but the point is that you will be able to record sounds much more accurately and appropriately. I'm sure there are some recorders out there that can cable-sync directly to your camera.

 

[M1chae1]

You should see levels on your camera, even if you don't have an external sound device.

 

[Re-Maker]

I think I'm better just record some sound both indoors and out and put links for professional sound engineers to judge.

 

[gpforet]

Read thru the posts here and on dvxuser.com in the audio section and most all your questions will be answered.

And the best way to learn your gear is to get out and use it. Volunteer to do sound for other peoples projects. you'll be amazed and how rapidly you get better at recording location sound. Do invest in quality ACCURATE headphones or ear monitors. Read thru the posts and there will be several headphones references as being industry standard models. Accurate monitoring is the only way you can truly know what your mics and rig are doing.

 

[Re-Maker]

It sounds like your biggest problem is that you have no VU meters. I'm no expert on syncing video and audio but have you thought about getting some kind of dedicated audio recording device? Something like this? Of course, that's brand new and I always go for used myself, but the point is that you will be able to record sounds much more accurately and appropriately. I'm sure there are some recorders out there that can cable-sync directly to your camera.

I like the recording device you are suggesting, but Zoom H4n that I already own does have VU meters.
I don't know why, but I really want to keep my production sound away from camera.

 

[Re-Maker]

The Zoom -

It's been quite a while since I fooled around with the Zoom but if I remember correctly...

1. You have to change the recording mode so that it records an external mono mic signal onto two tracks - that will solve the "one ear" problem. I believe that it's one of the MTR modes. You should be able to adjust the individual track levels so that one track records quieter than the other. You will only use one mono track in audio post, so the quieter track is a "safety" track that will not peak on excessive transients (gunshots or when someone yells/screams, etc). I think that there is a mono monitoring (headphone) mode that will put all signals in the center of the stereo field.

MTR mode!!! I'm stupid
The strange is that when I record in mono I hear CENTERED sound, but then the playback is mono. I will check mono monitoring settings.

2. I think that the blinking light indicates clipping (channel overload causing distortion).

99.99% it does, although I couldn't find any word on that in the manual.

3. None that I am aware of. db is Decibels which is a loudness measurement. For example, normal conversation about 60db - 70db, 125db is the threshold of pain. I don't remember if the H4n has a negative db pad (i.e. -20db pad).

So, what are usual levels of mic to record a 20db and 70db sound? Loud mic is more sensitive to sound than quiet one, right?

4. You are always going to have drift issues; the longer the take, the more the possible drift. On anything under five minutes drift should be negligible (milliseconds).

You mean PCM Audio is never in the same pace as 24p video.

The MK-012 - ...

Thanks for the explanation and the link.

 

[Alcove Audio]

So, what are usual levels of mic to record a 20db and 70db sound? Loud mic is more sensitive to sound than quiet one, right?

There is no such thing as a "loud" or "quiet" mic; well, there is but we (sound folks) tend to think in terms of sensitivity and dynamic range. The more sensitive a mic is the better it will capture soft and/or highly detailed sounds and, depending upon the polar pattern, will have better "reach" (picking up sound from a distance). Dynamic range is the sensitivity difference between high db and low db a piece of audio gear will handle. Dynamic mics tend to have great dynamic range - less susceptibility to high db transients - but less sensitivity. A mic like the venerable Shure SM-58 - very popular with rock vocalists - works great on anything within 3" to 6", though vocalists tend to "eat" them or put their lips directly on the mic; beyond that distance the sensitivity is greatly compromised. Condenser mics have greater sensitivity but are more prone to overload at high db levels.

You mean PCM Audio is never in the same pace as 24p video.

ALL non-sync systems will have drift to a lesser or greater degree. If you decide to use higher sample rates - standard video/DVD is 48kHz - using multiples of 2 (96kHz or 192kHz) tend to present fewer drift problems. You should also pay close attention to the conversion rates when importing into your NLE.