How is my shots and editing in these scenes?

H

harmonica44

It's a fight scene but I haven't edited the whole scene yet. There are some contuinity flaws I have to edit around which I am currently stuck on and will have to expirement with more. I've been told by others in the business to hire an editor cause they can take flawed footage like that, and make it good. I might do that if I can't figure out a way, but how is my editing for what I have so far? I have edited so far three sections of the fight.

Not all the shots match continously, and lighting wise, so some photoshopping and rotoscoping will be in order, once I make my final edit. Also how are my choice of shots as well? There are of course some unwanted things in the background I need to get rid of such as shadows of the DP and myself, and unwanted product placement. I hope I don't get in trouble for posting it on youtube before removing the placement.

Thanks.

http://youtu.be/dLExagxYRSQ
 
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To answer the question of "shots and editing" .... GREAT - Great job with the angles and the timing, I didnt get any sound for some reason. But that was good angles and editing, it kept me interested.

Few notes: The upside down shots dont work, that was the only thing that through me off.
Continuity and footage flaws are two different things- Both are very important to get right onset (as you know..and are learning)... This is why you always here "Check the gate!" to make sure there is no object in the gate so they know the film will be good on that end, anyway great angles and editing.

Nick Soares
 
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Okay thanks. You're right, there's no sound. It must not have exported or something, and I didn't notice, since I played it back on youtube with the volume down. It was just the bad DSLR sound anyway, which got all mismatched in the editing. I haven't put in the good field recorder and mic sound yet, since I'm still learning how to put it in and make it sound good and matching.

I tried the upside down thing in a couple of shots to hide a couple of flaws so they aren't as noticeable, but then tried it in a couple of more shots to create a style. I could undo all the shots, but then the flaws would be more noticeable. I also had to zoom in into a couple of shots to hide continuity flaws, so I hope the resolution change is not noticeable to the viewer as well. But it's hard to for you to tell probably, since Youtube makes the footage look a lot more pixelated while blown up.

Thanks for the input. Anything else?
 
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hi harmonica,

not to bad, still needs a bit of tweaking but you will get there.

the upside down shots are distracting you need to get rid of them.
i am not an editor but can you flip them up the right way in the edit program
that way you can still use them.
for complicated scenes it is best to do a wide shot of the whole action
then go in for the close ups. this lets you have somewhere to go when editing.

doing is learning. you have learnt some valuable lessons and the next time you shoot
will be better, and the time after that better still.....

cheers
 
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Thanks. What about the upside down shot in the bathroom? The problem is is that I wanted a shot of the dead guy from right side up. But I couldn't get it right in the editing. I have to take the shot, cut it in half, and flip the second half upside down, so you can see the dead guy, from right side up. But no matter where I cut the shot in half, it doesn't FLOW. Even if I were to stick a cut of the back behind the door, it still doesn't flow, but if the shot is bad I will keep trying. The upside down walk in, going right side up, just flows better than cutting it in half and flipping one, which felt forced. I've tried intercutting it just right, but still doesn't FLOW. Maybe a pro could do better.

There is also one on the stairs where if I flip it back around, a continuity flaw will be much more obvious. The others I could flip back around and was just doing it for style, but what about keeping just those two upside down?
 
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I agree that the upside down shots are quite distracting. There are other ways to disguise continuity issues. For example with the original shoot getting a wide angle to cutaway to or simply switching angles when editing much faster. I'm not sure what editing program you're using, but you could possibly add a slight shake to the camera, rather than zooming in, to hide any defects. When you shoot, if possible, get as many takes as you can. If you have any doubt that it was different, then shoot again.

Another tip I was thinking for the more intense part of the fight, such as where she kicks the guy, a good technique is to delete a frame or two just at impact which will make the kick more realistic. Once again that may be limited by the software you're using.

As Darty said, just keep doing it and you'll keep learning. Every film I make I learn more about how best to edit it, how many takes I should take to be safe etc.
 
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You've enough clips to edit together a decent scene. This whole sequence should come in under 45 seconds. Most of the clips could use trimming. The actor in the red shirt is actually pretty decent but you've got to trim away the less flattering footage. Some of the falls and other action stuff by the red shirt actor is very believable.

The punches and the batting clips look fake. See if you can speed up the clips or edit around them. I'm not sure many will buy the upside down footage.

Good luck.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Thanks. What about the upside down shot in the bathroom? The problem is is that I wanted a shot of the dead guy from right side up. But I couldn't get it right in the editing. I have to take the shot, cut it in half, and flip the second half upside down, so you can see the dead guy, from right side up. But no matter where I cut the shot in half, it doesn't FLOW. Even if I were to stick a cut of the back behind the door, it still doesn't flow, but if the shot is bad I will keep trying. The upside down walk in, going right side up, just flows better than cutting it in half and flipping one, which felt forced. I've tried intercutting it just right, but still doesn't FLOW. Maybe a pro could do better.

There is also one on the stairs where if I flip it back around, a continuity flaw will be much more obvious. The others I could flip back around and was just doing it for style, but what about keeping just those two upside down?
Click to expand...

Actually, I think you should try flipping that whole shot upside down and keep it as a continuous shot. You'll end up with the dead guy upside down, but I think you'll be surprised with how good it makes it look...

Go on. Try it. You know you want to!
 
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I kinda like the upside down thing. :blush:

Would look better if it started off in motion, though.

It's a "Hmm, you don't see that everyday" shot. It also adds a bit of disorientation, which I guess is traditionally more of a POV shot but is still useable. Even the third & final shot, after the lady is all beatup & having fallen down a flight of stairs.

Your milage may vary. :cool:
 
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It's good to see you've shot and edited something. Congratulations :)

Few notes:

The first punch is really unrealistic. There aren't that many women who could floor a grown man with a single punch, and that punch clearly didn't have sufficient power behind it. Really good sound design might mask that but I'd consider cutting away or reshooting for it to look believable.

Likewise, the part where (presumably) she breaks the guys neck is just weird. Maybe it'll make sense with sound but it looked like she was just massaging his scalp and then suddenly he was dead.

The part where one of the assailants clubs her with the baseball bat doesn't really look right. You can see that he's only swinging with his arms and not putting any whip on it as you naturally would if you were striking anything. It looks like he is being very careful not to put too much force behind it which is probably precisely the opposite of what you're trying to look for.

The upside down shots are tricky. Like Zensteve I kind of like the idea but I think that you need to either decide to go fully POV (which could easily be integrated into a fight scene like that) or have more camera motion. If the camera rights itself within the same movement then I think those upside down shots could work. At the moment, however, they are just sticking out too much. All the same, I think it's good that you've shown some real creativity in shooting that and it's useful to have it there as an option, even if it doesn't quite work in its current form.

So, well done and I hope those notes help :)
 
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Okay thanks. I could try to reshoot the first punch. What if I sped up the punch a little? Since she is holding a phone, it was the phone that was suppose to hit him harder and catch him off guard more. It wasn't the hit that knock him down, it was the two stairs behind him that he tripped back and fell down. Should I convey that more clearly? She didn't break the guys's neck though, she stabbed him with a knife. She wasn't masassaging his scalp she was pushing the knife in harder. How can I convey that more clearly? I can speed up the guy batting her to if that will help the batting. When she kicks the guy off her, she actually shoves him off, not kicks. I could speed it up, but then it looks like there is not much force or weight behind the shove. What's more convincing to the audience, force and weight, or speed?
 
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The knifing: shots are to long.
Where is the blood in the second knifing shot?

Hit her once with the baseballbat. Bang! -> cut to the next shot where is gets hit.

Around 2:00 the restraining: choose one shot or cut faster between the 2.

Upsidedown is not working, unless a character is watching things upsidedown, but this isn't the case.
 
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Okay thanks, but I don't get why I only should have one bat. That's even more unrealistic, cause in that situation a person would bat more than once I'd say. Plus other movies have had more than one batting at a time all in one shot, so where's the rule there? I gladly take the advice, but when other movies do it, I feel like I need a reason.

You can't see the blood in the second knifing shot cause the blood is bleeding out, under her hand, which is blocking it's view. How do I clarify that more to the audience? But I saw another movie where the knifing was just as long or even longer perhaps where the attacker keeps shoving the knife in, so what's the reason why I should have to have a much shorter style?
 
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The batting looks very controlled and mechanic, rather than angry and aggressive.
The are no rules for that.
I just felt the repetition wasn't convincing me.
(Comments on editing are always advice; you are free to try it or not :-) )

About hands blocking the blood: that is something you should have fixed during shooting:
Problem: hand blocking blood.
Solutions to consider:
- reposition hand to unblock blood (difficult with story)
- add blood on visible place
- reframe shot
- improvise shots (add shot for the side with acress lifting bloody knife after stabbing and a topshot without hand or knife: just victim's head bleeding out


(BTW, it's always easy to comment :-p
I also make mistakes now and then. Few weeks ago I was doing a photoshoot, but nobody noticed that one of the curtains in the background wasn't hanging straight. It was the end of the day and we had to hurry, but a 2 minute review could have saved me a few hours of photoshopping...
The big trick is to learn from these mistakes with 'updated routines'.
So next time I'm not just checking curtains, I'll be checking the complete background for unwanted details.
And next time you are not just checking whether you see blood or not, but you are checking whether the shot shows what it needs to show.)
 
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Okay thanks. What about comparing it to the stabbing scene in this movie?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulmNjp_Vbos&feature=related

If you fast forward 5 minutes in exactly you will see that there is no blood because the stabbed guys head is blocking the blood from the camera's point of view. Same with a lot of movies where the point of view of the blood is blocked, but we are smart enough to know it's there. Why can't the same concept be applied to mine? Don't get me wrong I love the advice, but when it's done in other movies, it's hard to see it as a problem. I even thought on set, well the blood is blocked in other movies, so it shouldn't be a problem for me to do it as well. If I must I will photoshop blood in from the other shot but it would be good to know why I must have blood shown when other movies hide it with people in the way?

The reason why the batter does not have much aggression is that his conscience got the better of him before him in the scene, and he isn't up to the task, but is too late and forced into it. He even acted queasy before breaking into the house. He's the main character and is developed the most. Will the audience by the batting if that is established beforehand?
 
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harmonica44 said:
Okay thanks. What about comparing it to the stabbing scene in this movie?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulmNjp_Vbos&feature=related

If you fast forward 5 minutes in exactly you will see that there is no blood because the stabbed guys head is blocking the blood from the camera's point of view. Same with a lot of movies where the point of view of the blood is blocked, but we are smart enough to know it's there. Why can't the same concept be applied to mine? Don't get me wrong I love the advice, but when it's done in other movies, it's hard to see it as a problem. I even thought on set, well the blood is blocked in other movies, so it shouldn't be a problem for me to do it as well. If I must I will photoshop blood in from the other shot but it would be good to know why I must have blood shown when other movies hide it with people in the way?

The reason why the batter does not have much aggression is that his conscience got the better of him before him in the scene, and he isn't up to the task, but is too late and forced into it. He even acted queasy before breaking into the house. He's the main character and is developed the most. Will the audience by the batting if that is established beforehand?
Click to expand...

In the example the knife is introduced much better.
The story is in the edit, so you don't need the blood.
 
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Oh well I have several other shots of the knife, one of them the woman jumps and reaches for it before the guy does and he tries to keep himself from being stabbed, and fighting her off. So will that do? What else can I do?

Also for the first punch. Is it the hit that's fake, or the fact that the guy falls? Also I can't cut out two of the bats. Cause the woman is spun around 360 degrees after only one bat, and that just seems less convincing when I play it back. Ok how's this edit?:

http://youtu.be/-hv9yLwTUXg
 
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