On my first short film shoot I found myself constantly having to draw an imaginary line around where I wanted her to shoot. But I kept forgetting to do that each time. Is this normal in filmmaking, or how do you people do it? It sucks when you have to reshoot, and since I can't be behind the camera looking the whole time, I find myself not getting the shots, I want. Some are too far, some are too close, some are just too plane out of frame. So how do I get my DP to frame it just right?
How do you convey this to your DP?
- Thread starter harmonica44
- Start date
Storyboard. Watch the monitors. Find a DP that is better in tune with your vision.
That's why I'm my own DP. 
But just tell your DP how to frame the shot, that simple. Talk to her beforehand and discuss the shots you want to do. That way, she's prepared. Also, after each take, review the footage then correct her if she framed the shot wrong... It's all about planning and having a good communication with your DP. Make sure you two understand each other and you two are seeing the same movie! If you're the director, it's your job to get the shots right. But if your current DP can't execute, take over or find another one.
Good luck!
But just tell your DP how to frame the shot, that simple. Talk to her beforehand and discuss the shots you want to do. That way, she's prepared. Also, after each take, review the footage then correct her if she framed the shot wrong... It's all about planning and having a good communication with your DP. Make sure you two understand each other and you two are seeing the same movie! If you're the director, it's your job to get the shots right. But if your current DP can't execute, take over or find another one.
Good luck!
Also, from other posts, it's your DP's first time running camera right?
If so, be patient and learn together since it's your first time directing. There's lots of newbies that help us out on productions. We encourage it, because we were each in that place at one point and someone who's green today could have some real talent and be a solid part of your team tomorrow.
If it's really a problem, find someone with more experience to actually be in charge of the camera department, but keep the noob around to learn. If she's in fact experienced and I read all this wrong, get someone who can get what you want. It shouldn't be too hard to communicate, "frame it tight with just his chin and a little headroom" or "give me a full head to toe".
Storyboarding helps too. Everyone involved on the set can look at it and know exactly what has to happen for the shot.
If so, be patient and learn together since it's your first time directing. There's lots of newbies that help us out on productions. We encourage it, because we were each in that place at one point and someone who's green today could have some real talent and be a solid part of your team tomorrow.
If it's really a problem, find someone with more experience to actually be in charge of the camera department, but keep the noob around to learn. If she's in fact experienced and I read all this wrong, get someone who can get what you want. It shouldn't be too hard to communicate, "frame it tight with just his chin and a little headroom" or "give me a full head to toe".
Storyboarding helps too. Everyone involved on the set can look at it and know exactly what has to happen for the shot.
Okay thanks. I tried the storyboarding, but once we start shooting I end up scrapping half the storyboards cause I think of better things on the spot, since I am seeing everything in front of me. I can't review the footage, cause I don't have time a lot of the time. I have to get everything shot within a few hours, and I best just keep going. I tried to make an effort to review it by the time we were done, but by then it was too late, and the actors had to go, so it wouldn't have made a difference by that point anyway. I feel a lot of future shoots are going to be like that. I can't be my own DP for most of the shoot cause I gotta do other stuff like sound, and some acting.
Another thing is unfortunately some of my shots are out of focus. I can use the sharpener, in Premiere Pro or AE, and it seems to look pretty good, but will viewers notice to much of a difference of look in those shots?
Another thing is unfortunately some of my shots are out of focus. I can use the sharpener, in Premiere Pro or AE, and it seems to look pretty good, but will viewers notice to much of a difference of look in those shots?
What I don't understand is how you can get so pressed for time that you can't take 15 seconds to look... It takes longer than that to explain the new shot. I can't imagine even calling "action" if I haven't seen the set-up through the lens.
Also, on a side note, you should probably learn your lenses. Instead of making an outline of the frame, you should be able to call out which lens you want to use for a shot. That should give your DP the best idea for what you're looking for...
I can look into the camera and get the frame right at first but the DP moves the camera, while the scene pans, and since I am acting in the scene too, and don't physically have time to leave my position in between takes. I just kept doing more and more takes, and didn't review a lot of the footage, cause I had no time. I had three hours to correct all the mistakes. It doesn't take 15 seconds to review it but more like 60, to get over to the camera, play it back and observe. Especially when you are shooting on latters and high positions. All those seconds add up. Next time I will not take the risk and plan for more. But how does a director look through the camera and direct the DP's panning movements, while acting in front of the camera?
I only have one lens right now. Once I get more experienced with what I want, I will buy more.
I only have one lens right now. Once I get more experienced with what I want, I will buy more.
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hi harmonica,
filmmaking is a time consuming process as you have discovered.
you need to schedule lots more time than you think you need especially
when you are doing everything yourself.
time always seems to run 3 times faster on a shoot.
find an experienced dp/operator. someone you can have complete trust in.
an on set monitor is a must. block out the scene and watch the rehersals on the monitor so that
you and the dp are clear about the framing and action (if you are in the scene use a double).
in the behind the scenes docos, you always see a lot of people standing around, they are there for
a reason. everyone has a job to do and when their job needs doing they are right on it.
so a crew is essential. you need to take the load off yourself.
filmmaking is also hard work so a good team of people on your crew is essential
cheers
filmmaking is a time consuming process as you have discovered.
you need to schedule lots more time than you think you need especially
when you are doing everything yourself.
time always seems to run 3 times faster on a shoot.
find an experienced dp/operator. someone you can have complete trust in.
an on set monitor is a must. block out the scene and watch the rehersals on the monitor so that
you and the dp are clear about the framing and action (if you are in the scene use a double).
in the behind the scenes docos, you always see a lot of people standing around, they are there for
a reason. everyone has a job to do and when their job needs doing they are right on it.
so a crew is essential. you need to take the load off yourself.
filmmaking is also hard work so a good team of people on your crew is essential
cheers
I will get an on set monitor once I have more money. I guess I could use my computer monitor as an onset monitor and plug in a long enough cable so that it's not shown in the scene for now. But I am done shooting and will know that for next time. This 2-3 hour reshoot of some of the shots, went bad, and the shots, aren't near as good as the originals. The panning and acting in the originals is better, however the lighting was too dark, which is why I reshot. In the reshoot, everything was bright and matched, which was the one good thing I discovered so far. So I think what I will do is rotoscope the lighting out of the reshoots, and into the originals. But I am still learning how to do that.
What if I finished my final edit, then looked online for a good rotoscoper willing to do it for free, since I already went overbudget on finishing production? I haven't been able to find someone so far who is familiar with using AE, for rotoscoping, but I know a few people who might be able to with photoshop. So is doing that a good idea?
What if I finished my final edit, then looked online for a good rotoscoper willing to do it for free, since I already went overbudget on finishing production? I haven't been able to find someone so far who is familiar with using AE, for rotoscoping, but I know a few people who might be able to with photoshop. So is doing that a good idea?
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That sounds like a great idea. Do it.
Ps. I'm not being a smart a$$. I think you should just do it and see if it works out. You know, thats what the filmmaking is all about.
Ps. I'm not being a smart a$$. I think you should just do it and see if it works out. You know, thats what the filmmaking is all about.
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Okay I'll do that. Thanks for all the replies people! In a lot of the action shots, usually an actors head is real close to the camera. Like in one scene, when one person is being choked sort of, you can see the person being chocked, but you can also see the back of the choker's head and it keeps blocking the camera constantly as it goes in and out of frame. My DP said she figured that I want both actors in the shot, but a lot of times it's just good to have one.
This has been a miscommunication several times throughout the shoot, and there are a lot of shots, with an actors head blocking the frame, from the side, close up. I keep telling her that she should ask me if I want both actors in the shot, if she does not know, but she never asks, and keeps constantly doing this. How would a director make this point before each shot? Cause usually I'm concentrating on different things, than whether or not this there is a miscommunication in this area. It can also mess with continuity more and I have to zoom in past the blocking head, just to fix it.
This has been a miscommunication several times throughout the shoot, and there are a lot of shots, with an actors head blocking the frame, from the side, close up. I keep telling her that she should ask me if I want both actors in the shot, if she does not know, but she never asks, and keeps constantly doing this. How would a director make this point before each shot? Cause usually I'm concentrating on different things, than whether or not this there is a miscommunication in this area. It can also mess with continuity more and I have to zoom in past the blocking head, just to fix it.
The "blocking head" shot is an over the shoulder (OTS) shot and a pretty typical shot. Again, a shot list comes into play here. A tight shot is just the actor facing the camera, an OTS catches the edge of the other actor in frame.
Next time, with a shot list, explain what is what. Let her know that unless it says "OTS" you want only the actor the shot calls for.
Next time, with a shot list, explain what is what. Let her know that unless it says "OTS" you want only the actor the shot calls for.
I mean yeah, EVERY shot is run past me by the DP before we roll. I watch EVERY take through the monitor as we are filming it. When we are rolling I am NEVER looking at the scene in "real life" I am only looking at it through the lens. I even do that at auditions. I never, ever watch auditions directly. I only watch them through the camera. I don't care how what they are doing looks in the real world.
For sure, as every director should. Harmonica though is both directing AND acting in his project though.
That's something to avoid too. Until you're really expirenced at both and have a really solid DP and AD helping out.
Missed that part!
I have done it as well (The Island http://vimeo.com/17683897 )
In THAT case, I worked with the DP to frame the shot with a stand in, and usually reviewed the "best" take before we moved on.
Okay thanks. I had to scrap half of the shot list, once we started at the location though, cause the location was shaped differently than I remembered in parts. I keep thinking up better shots on set, but then they get miscommunicated. I will try to remember to say no OTS before each knew made up shot on set.
1- scout your locations and take pictures. Since you shoot with your DSLR, you can immediately get a sense of what is possible with your lens. How wide can you shoot, how close can you shoot?
Where are the windows, doors, where does the sun move, etc.
Make a simple map of the location.
2- make a storyboard with the floorplan in mind.
Keep the drawings simple but clear, so you can show what you mean.
Improvising can be fun and tempting, but it can be smart or unwise. Sometimes improvising just takes a lot of your time and in the end you find out you forgot things, because you ignored your own planning.
You can now note camerapositions at the shots in your storyboard. These position can be drawn on the floormap. This way you can also plan the best order of shots and camerapositions, so you don't use too much time moving around.
You can't read any Dutch, I guess, but you can still look at the video and pictures on my blog about how I created a animation from a storyboard. I know the storyboard is rather crappy: I didn't have to make a cleaned up, better version, because I was the only crew reading the storyboard
http://brokxmedia.wordpress.com/2010/07/01/anatomie-van-een-zomergroet-storyboards-deel-1/
3- 'only the lens is reality'. Anything the camera doesn't see, isn't happening. From one side things may look great, stupid or genius, but if it's not in the frame, it doesn't really matter. Get a cheap portable DVD player with screen with composite inputconnectors. It may not be the ultimate way to judge color, sharpness or brightness, but you can see what is happening.
Your miscommunication could happen because you threw away the visual aid you had (storyboard) and didn't look how she interpreted your instructions. You are both not very experienced, so it's very hard to talk about visuals and understand each other.
Going over the storyboard with the DP before the shoot is a good idea as well. You can ask for suggestions and you can see whether there are shots that don't seem te work.
BTW, I think she made a good decision on the choke shot: not only is overshoulder a common way to shoot things: it gives more depth to the image and probably adds to the action and anxiety of the 'chokee'.
(Let's hope it fits in your edit.)
Another example from my blog is about the illusion you can create with a camera. (It's about a bed, while it's not a bed. But you can also see the external monitor we used: a Philips portable DVD-player.)
http://brokxmedia.wordpress.com/201...-de-schermen-bij-de-opnames-van-de-paasgroet/
(4-) rotoscoping the lights out of one take and putting it into the other take is a bad idea. It will take you too much time, a dozen new indietalk-threads, a lot of frustration and poor results, because you'll find that both camera-angle and movement won't match.
Edit the darker stuff and edit the reshot stuff and look which version works best.
Good luck!
Where are the windows, doors, where does the sun move, etc.
Make a simple map of the location.
2- make a storyboard with the floorplan in mind.
Keep the drawings simple but clear, so you can show what you mean.
Improvising can be fun and tempting, but it can be smart or unwise. Sometimes improvising just takes a lot of your time and in the end you find out you forgot things, because you ignored your own planning.
You can now note camerapositions at the shots in your storyboard. These position can be drawn on the floormap. This way you can also plan the best order of shots and camerapositions, so you don't use too much time moving around.
You can't read any Dutch, I guess, but you can still look at the video and pictures on my blog about how I created a animation from a storyboard. I know the storyboard is rather crappy: I didn't have to make a cleaned up, better version, because I was the only crew reading the storyboard
http://brokxmedia.wordpress.com/2010/07/01/anatomie-van-een-zomergroet-storyboards-deel-1/
3- 'only the lens is reality'. Anything the camera doesn't see, isn't happening. From one side things may look great, stupid or genius, but if it's not in the frame, it doesn't really matter. Get a cheap portable DVD player with screen with composite inputconnectors. It may not be the ultimate way to judge color, sharpness or brightness, but you can see what is happening.
Your miscommunication could happen because you threw away the visual aid you had (storyboard) and didn't look how she interpreted your instructions. You are both not very experienced, so it's very hard to talk about visuals and understand each other.
Going over the storyboard with the DP before the shoot is a good idea as well. You can ask for suggestions and you can see whether there are shots that don't seem te work.
BTW, I think she made a good decision on the choke shot: not only is overshoulder a common way to shoot things: it gives more depth to the image and probably adds to the action and anxiety of the 'chokee'.
(Let's hope it fits in your edit.)
Another example from my blog is about the illusion you can create with a camera. (It's about a bed, while it's not a bed. But you can also see the external monitor we used: a Philips portable DVD-player.)
http://brokxmedia.wordpress.com/201...-de-schermen-bij-de-opnames-van-de-paasgroet/
(4-) rotoscoping the lights out of one take and putting it into the other take is a bad idea. It will take you too much time, a dozen new indietalk-threads, a lot of frustration and poor results, because you'll find that both camera-angle and movement won't match.
Edit the darker stuff and edit the reshot stuff and look which version works best.
Good luck!
Okay thanks I'll do those next time. I will also plan half the scheduling for playing back the footage on set for review, and not just shooting more takes. What about cropping the image... At least two of the images will have to be zoomed in cause they were shot from further away than what I intended. What size TV should I playback footage on, to make sure that the cropping will not result in noticeable resolution loss?
I have an HDTV around 48 inches. If I play an SD DVD in a DVD player that puts out only 360p, I don't notice any pixels. So does that mean I can zoom up to 360p, before the audience will notice that that particular shot has a lot less pixels? What about bigger TVs?
I have an HDTV around 48 inches. If I play an SD DVD in a DVD player that puts out only 360p, I don't notice any pixels. So does that mean I can zoom up to 360p, before the audience will notice that that particular shot has a lot less pixels? What about bigger TVs?