How do I write this climax logically?

[harmonica44]

I am writing very low budget. So I want the climax to take place in doors, since it's cheaper to film a gunfight indoors, than out. It's not just a standard gunfight, but it starts off as a stand off, so the main twists can come into play, under the suspense.

Here's the scenario. This gang, gang #1, breaks into a bank, cause they want something that's in the building. The cops have the place surrounded. Another gang, gang #2, does not want the police to have, what gang #1, is after. So gang 2 goes to the bank, and their plan is to take out the cops, make their way in, take out the gang 1 and take the item. That's the jest of it.

Now the police would logically set up road blocks to prevent gang 1 from escaping, but I need gang 2 to get past the road blocks and the outdoor cops, in order to make their way into the building. I need to write it, so all the action takes place inside the bank, for low budget reasons. I could write it, so the police get word that gang 2 is coming for them. So they all hide, and get their road blocks out of site. They then let gang 2 into the building, to take out gang 1, then they re-surround the building, and have both gangs cornered. Not the proper police procedure, but need to get creative. But there is still the matter of the gangs shooting outside the building, at the cops, and the cops would or course, shoot back.

Any thoughts on this whole scenario? Thanks.

 

[maralyn]

This story will rely on credibility. The cops would never hide from gang2. They will have to find another way in. You could go for the ol cliche, and they wear police uniforms. But I think that's been done. They could infiltrate by pretending to be family members of the hostages, they get pretty close.

Just keep in mind that the cops' priority is the safety of the hostages. They never shoot back in those situations. They try to talk them down.

 

[harmonica44]

This is at night though actually, and their are no hostages in the bank, and the cops have ascertained that there is none, but of course there is no way of knowing for certain. I didn't want hostages to save on extras.

I thought the cops would hide temporalily just to let them through to have both gangs in the same corner, instead of fighting two from both sides. Gang #2 gets word of gang 1 rather quickly, and that more cops are coming, so they have to move fast, and not really have time for to get police uniforms, unless they happen to be carrying them around in their car trunks, ready just in case.

 

[maralyn]

I just don't buy it that cops would alter rigorous attitudes to strategy because of some hear say of some maybe gang going to possibly drop in. They could sneak up on a small swat team on a roof and take their clothes and weapons, but it just feels like I've seen it before.

Why not even just a cleaner as an opportunistic hostage.

 

[knightly]

Because part of the role of the police presence is to keep the public out of harm's way, G2 would have to sneak past them (perhaps over rooftops? or through the sewers) to gain access to the building.

 

[harmonica44]

Hmm maybe, but as soon as G2 got into the bank, the cops would see their attempts, and would do something. So wouldn't G2 take out all the cops, if they were sneaking in on rooftops, and take them by surprise? This would lead to an outdoor shootout still, but it just seems illogical of G2 to let all the cops live and still be on guard, when they plan on killing G1, and snatching an item out from the building that the cops have cornered, and plan to get away successfully.

 

[maralyn]

Shoot all the cops?

Have it play out from gang1's perspective inside the bank. maybe gang2 snipers them through the window, and only 2 are still alive. And they can't figure out if it's the cops or gang2.

And they give themselves up to save themselves.

 

[garylloyd]

I am writing very low budget. So I want the climax to take place in doors, since it's cheaper to film a gunfight indoors, than out. It's not just a standard gunfight, but it starts off as a stand off, so the main twists can come into play, under the suspense.

Here's the scenario. This gang, gang #1, breaks into a bank, cause they want something that's in the building. The cops have the place surrounded. Another gang, gang #2, does not want the police to have, what gang #1, is after. So gang 2 goes to the bank, and their plan is to take out the cops, make their way in, take out the gang 1 and take the item. That's the jest of it.

Now the police would logically set up road blocks to prevent gang 1 from escaping, but I need gang 2 to get past the road blocks and the outdoor cops, in order to make their way into the building. I need to write it, so all the action takes place inside the bank, for low budget reasons. I could write it, so the police get word that gang 2 is coming for them. So they all hide, and get their road blocks out of site. They then let gang 2 into the building, to take out gang 1, then they re-surround the building, and have both gangs cornered. Not the proper police procedure, but need to get creative. But there is still the matter of the gangs shooting outside the building, at the cops, and the cops would or course, shoot back.

Any thoughts on this whole scenario? Thanks.

Sounds very expensive and I don't understand why Gang 2 has to be in the bank at all.

If they know about the robbery, wouldn't they wait to see if it's successful, ambush gang1 on the road somewhere and try to get the money like that?

 

[knightly]

With the cops focused on G1, G2 could flank them entering from above or below, taking them unawares - or like silent ninja killers.

 

[rayw]

None of this sounds remotely "low budget".

Any city with a population base large enough to supply members to not one, but TWO, gangs probably is going to have a significant police force response.

- Extensive bank lobby and other office space time
- At night = additional lighting
- Gang #1 = probably four or five guys
- Cops = probably ten or twelve guys
- Four or five cop cars
- command vehicle
- Gang #2 = probably another five to ten guys
- Officials et al in charge of hunting down either of the gangs = at least three guys
- rubber neckers = ten extras

That's thirty people on set in front of the camera.
PLUS vehicles and costumes and props.


I don't see how this is going to be anything less than a Michael Mann HEAT-fest or even Ben Affleck's THE TOWN.


Tell me how this is going to be "low budget" and I'll think of something sensible.

 

[harmonica44]

Sounds very expensive and I don't understand why Gang 2 has to be in the bank at all.

If they know about the robbery, wouldn't they wait to see if it's successful, ambush gang1 on the road somewhere and try to get the money like that?

Actually no, because it's too risky. If the robbery is not successful and the cops capture or kill Gang 1, then they have the package of evidence that Gang 2 doesn't want the cops to have. I am trying to make it as low budget as I can. Some of the cops are still on their way, and just a few cops are outside the bank, and maybe we don't have to show the road blocks down the road, or actually show the cop cars in frame. The gangs can be in groups of 10s only, and want to get their fast, before more cops come. I can shoot it in day, and fake it for night.

 

[rayw]

So...

1 -This is supposed to be an after hours/night time bank robbery of the safe deposit boxes to recover evidence by Gang1?

2 - Alarm's gone out.

3 - First responder police have arrived.

4 - Gang2 "somehow" bypasses police,

5 - enters bank,

6 - overcomes G1,

7 - recovers evidence themselves.

8 - Then depart before additional police arrive less than a minute later.

Sound about right?

Is this supposed to be relatively quiet and slick - or - an action packed, gunzabazin' shooterfest?

 

[maralyn]

It still isn't going to be low budget. 2 gangs of ten, at least as many cops, you'll have to take over an entire block, warderobe, make up. How low is low? Even SAW cost one mil. And that was just in one room.

Stunts, gunfire, smashed doors and windows. Cop cars.

Action, is expensive.

 

[harmonica44]

Yeah I would probably have to either shoot outdoors, or fake backgrounds, for the cops waiting outside the bank. But either way, I figure a gunfight would be cheaper inside, especially since the gunfight will take a lot more time to shoot. And using a building for shooting is less costly, then blocking off a street or more. I was planning on using Action Essentials 2 for the gunfight effects.

I thought a lot of Saw's money went to Danny Glover's salary, and maybe some of Cary Elwis... and the other semi-known actors.

 

[rayw]

So...

1 -This is supposed to be an after hours/night time bank robbery of the safe deposit boxes to recover evidence by Gang1?

2 - Alarm's gone out.

3 - First responder police have arrived.

4 - Gang2 "somehow" bypasses police,

5 - enters bank,

6 - overcomes G1,

7 - recovers evidence themselves.

8 - Then depart before additional police arrive less than a minute later.

Sound about right?

Is this supposed to be relatively quiet and slick - or - an action packed, gunzabazin' shooterfest?

Is this sequence correct?
Quiet or gunzablazin'?

 

[LasVegasIRA]

You have several exits from the bank, so the police are separated into different groups to watch each one. Gang 2 will be watching the exit with the fewest cops, then a couple of their people will cause a diversion to draw even more cops away. Then they overtake the few cops that are left at that one exit and make their way inside. Now the cops have even more reason to go into the bank and start a stand off inside...

 

[Alcove Audio]

As others have commented, this isn't remotely low budget.

I would strip it down to:

The evidence is in a safe or even just cleverly hidden in a residence or perhaps an office.

Just a two or three guys from Gang One go to get the evidence.

Gang Two finds out about G1 going after the evidence. G2 puts themselves in place to ambush G1 on the way out.

G1 trips the alarm system, but doesn't know that the silent alarm has been activated. The cops send out a patrol car to investigate, causing G2 to rethink their plan. G2 needs to divert the cops and go into the residence/office themselves before police backup arrives.

The cops don't know if the people inside are good guys or bad guys, or both, creating more confusion.

During the diversion or assault by G2 on the cops the cops have enough time to call for more backup.

I don't know your full premise, but this situation could result in a three-way stand-off or shoot-out.

+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+

Plus points for this scenario:

So instead of a bank - which is a big budget set - you can use a private residence or office. There are lots doors and windows in a residence, so lots of ways in and out to be covered by G2; if it's an office building G2 doesn't know which office (which is why they're waiting outside). You won't need to get permits and block off a street (with all of the associated costs).

G1 can be running around the residence/office trying to find the safe - builds tension. They finally find the safe and can't get it open- more tension.

G2 can be running around the house or office looking for G1. This keeps most of your action inside.

A small "recovery" team for G1. Not as many G2 guys needed. Just one police car and two cops instead of half a dozen patrol cars, a SWAT truck and a SWAT team. Fewer actors to film and keep track of. It's a lot easier to divert or eliminate two cops in a patrol car.

Police backup is on the way, the clock is ticking - builds tension.

+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+

I'm sure that you want the "big" scene, but a smaller scene done in a POV style makes it very intimate and immediate - everyone running around in the dark, not knowing who is who with the clock ticking.

 

[maralyn]

Yeah I would probably have to either shoot outdoors, or fake backgrounds, for the cops waiting outside the bank. But either way, I figure a gunfight would be cheaper inside, especially since the gunfight will take a lot more time to shoot. And using a building for shooting is less costly, then blocking off a street or more. I was planning on using Action Essentials 2 for the gunfight effects.

I thought a lot of Saw's money went to Danny Glover's salary, and maybe some of Cary Elwis... and the other semi-known actors.

I'm going to be harsh here. Low budget action is almost impossible.

Audiences are conditioned to 300mil production values in action, that's hard to get around. How passionate are you about this idea? What are you really wanting to achieve with it?

I don't want to dampen enthusiasm, but if I were making a low budget movie, it would either be a contemporary love story, or drama, or contained thriller. And it would have to be something very very very fresh.

And that's it.

 

[harmonica44]

No I understand you guys are not trying to discourage me. Thanks for all the input. It's a thriller but like most thrillers I need some sort of sequence of violent suspense, in which certain characters have to die, and certain have to live, for a desired outcome. So it's not like I need it to be a big budget action film, but the sequences of suspense still have to take place.

I wouldn't want a big shootout like in HEAT or the TOWN. Something smaller is cool. I was thinking of having all the guns be semi-automatic only, which results in less work. Even if I use computer effects for all the gunshots, I'm guessing it would still help, to concentrate more on the suspense, rather than the destruction. A movie like A History of Violence for example. Could that be done on a microbudget, if it had no known actors? I've seen microbudget films that seem to be in the same league of action scenes. Nothing too destructive or extravagant, but still exciting to watch.

For this one I would have to use a lot of tricks though, such as not actually showing the cop cars. I would need a police helicopter, cause it's only logical that the police would use one, once the crooks are on the loose, but I could just shoot it from the ground level only, and use real helicopters that fly over my city. I could shoot them, then paint them in post to look like police ones more so. They would be brief shots only from the running characters point of view from the ground. And most of the shooting and killing will be indoors for low budget.

I like the idea of how G2 has to get around the cops to get in, and not engage them outside. But it seems to make a lot more logical sense that they would engage the cops, so they won't have to deal with them once inside. If they engage the cops by surprise, while outside, then they won't have to fight them blind while inside the bank. G2 does not know the cops know that they are coming, so it seems more logical for them to ambush the cops while they have the chance, instead of fighting blind, after cornering themselves in the building. I'm trying to rap more logic around it.

It's a movie so it's not realism, but at the same time, I need logical plausibility to sell it of course.

 

[maralyn]

Then make it more intimate. In a thriller, suspense relies on us feeling what they feel. Or fearing what will happen to them.

Who is your main character? Who do we feel for?