How do I fix this sync problem?

H

harmonica44

I was told before on here to keep all the sound from the multiple takes of each shot. Here's the problem though. Let's say I did 10 different takes of one shot. The best performed shot is the 7th take. But the best dialogue performance and possible recording as well, is take #5. However I can't use the sound from take #5 and sync it with the video of take #7. That's how it is with all the takes though.

It just seems too difficult for actors to say the lines the same way, so the sync will match. How do I get actors to say the lines the same way, so it will match better? Or if I can't, should I just use the original sound take from the same video take, and stick with those. What's the best way? Thanks.
 
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Editing.

If you have cutaways -- which you should ideally always shoot, though it doesn't always happen -- then you don't have to worry about perfect sync. Somebody once joked to me to always take an unscripted shot of the cat sitting in the corner just so you have that cutaway if you need it. Good cutaways (or B-roll, as we say when shooting docs) will always save your ass.
 
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At this level, at this budget, you have to think like a 'true indie' (heh heh) filmmaker.

basically what I'm trying to say is that if the 7th take has unusable sound, then you have to tell your brain that effectively, it is NOT the best take or performance. Choose the take that has the best total package.

If you want the best of everything, then you need to spend the money and hire professionals.

cheers
aveek
 
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I will probably get an editor once production is done. But let's say someone says a sentence like 'I'll call you when I get there'. Would they be able to take the word call from the 4th take, and splice it in over the word of the 7th take for example? Can I take each individual words from separate takes and make them into a sentence that matches up, and it will still edit together nice, or can I usually only take whole sentences from takes? Since the actors say the sentences differently in each take, I will have to take separate words from the sentences from other takes in order to come up with the best audible, and performed, sentence for that take. If that's do-able?
 
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harmonica44 said:
Would they be able to take the word call from the 4th take, and splice it in over the word of the 7th take for example? Can I take each individual words from separate takes and make them into a sentence that matches up, and it will still edit together nice,
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You can sometimes take a word and put it in another sentence, it all depends on inflection of the word and the context. If someone whispers one take and screams another, you can't put one scream word into a whisper sentence. If they're asking a line in one take and declaring it in another then most likely not as questions usually end "up".

Just try it. If it works great, if not, well... Most of the time it probably won't work, or you'll end up sounding like Steven hawking.

Best to do it right. Work with the actors on set and have them act it right. Figure out what's good and do it every single take. Most amateur actors will still be a little off, but it needs to be close as possible between angles for the scene to line up.

I've heard stories of audio editors listening dialog and the takes are so identical they have to check and make sure it isn't a copy. That's one sign of a great actor.
 
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You can do those things, but why would you want to? Yes, I've reconstructed the dialog of entire scenes from the unused takes, but the reasons are almost always to correct for noise or other serious technical problems.

These days you can do incredible things in the edit bay both visually and sonically. But to do those things seamlessly requires a lot of expertise and the proper tools - not to mention the material to work with in the first place. Another issue is that in the quest for absolute control and absolute perfection you suck the life and soul out of a performance. Just because you can do things doesn't mean that you should.

Harmonica - shoot your first damned short so you have some idea of what the hell you're really talking about. There's a world of difference between knowledge and actual hands-on experience.
 
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Wow that is the sign of one. Yes I will have to do the best I can but probably will not be able to get any full sentences that much, and have to break off bits and pieces. I will get an audio engineer I know and see if he can edit the sound after. If not then I can go out and find an editor. I just hope he or she can do the job well with what I will have after. Two of the actors like to adlib a little, and they are so good at it, that the dialogue is better than what I wrote. So I would like to keep a lot of the adlibs as well, but that results in making it harder to match up full sentences, from different takes.
 
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Adlib is fine, but we're just trying to tell you that a few words of different sentences jabbed together most likely isn't going to work.

Of course you pull form different takes and use cutaways and different angles to mask it. Take the best read/angle combined of Bill saying sentence 1 out of all the takes, then cut to best angle/read of Julie's reaction. Then cut to the best angle/read of Bill's next line. Wait, this is a long line, you the first two sentences of Scene 18Q then the last two sentences of scene 18Y and and put a cutaway of the clock ticking or Julie's distant eyes in between.

I still consider myself new to film and will for years, but I get to work with guys that are brand spanking new in person. I give them the same advice I follow, finish Film 101 before starting 102 or 401 or whatever. Learn the basics and the right way to do, then start experimenting and developing your style and what not. You can break a rule as much as you want IF you know what he rule is you're breaking.
 
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Are your actors off book?
Do they understand what you want?
Have you rehearsed your actors and did they give you what you want?

If so, shoot the scene(I assume you're shooting video) until you get it right.
 
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"I've heard stories of audio editors listening dialog and the takes are so identical they have to check and make sure it isn't a copy. That's one sign of a great actor"

I once had the editor tell me of an actor in one of my films (one of the better actors) That he once synced the wrong audio clip and he only knew because a sound (a door opening) was slightly off. The actor's dialog from the two different takes synced perfectly. He had delivered it EXACTLY the same both times.
 
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hepabst said:
Are your actors off book?
Do they understand what you want?
Have you rehearsed your actors and did they give you what you want?

If so, shoot the scene(I assume you're shooting video) until you get it right.
Click to expand...

We've done a few so far, as we have just started. Not actually shooting yet, but rehearsing and discussing everything else. We will shoot very soon.

PaulGriffith said:
Adlib is fine, but we're just trying to tell you that a few words of different sentences jabbed together most likely isn't going to work.

Of course you pull form different takes and use cutaways and different angles to mask it. Take the best read/angle combined of Bill saying sentence 1 out of all the takes, then cut to best angle/read of Julie's reaction. Then cut to the best angle/read of Bill's next line. Wait, this is a long line, you the first two sentences of Scene 18Q then the last two sentences of scene 18Y and and put a cutaway of the clock ticking or Julie's distant eyes in between.

I still consider myself new to film and will for years, but I get to work with guys that are brand spanking new in person. I give them the same advice I follow, finish Film 101 before starting 102 or 401 or whatever. Learn the basics and the right way to do, then start experimenting and developing your style and what not. You can break a rule as much as you want IF you know what he rule is you're breaking.
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I could do that, but I have a really good shot list in my head, and cutting to different people to mask edits, might get in the way of the list. But I could do that for sure, and it's something to consider. I thought of it before, but did not want to use it too often, as the shots might not be near as good of a flow then, of course.
 
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hepabst said:
Are your actors off book?
Do they understand what you want?
Have you rehearsed your actors and did they give you what you want?

If so, shoot the scene(I assume you're shooting video) until you get it right.
Click to expand...

Exactly,

@Harmonica: This problem you described shouldn't even exist at all.

If take 7 has the best visual and take 5 have the best sound, you should keep on shooting until you get a take where the actor acted as good as they did in take 7, and sounds as good as they did in take 5. Even if it takes an hour to get one sentence right, it'll still be quicker and more natural than doing it in post.
 
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Harmonica, I don't know what your shot list is that you want really bad but remember you don't always have to show the actor who's talking while they're talking. You can always cut to the actor who's listening (or the cat). In fact there is a conversation scene in Sex Lies & Videotape where the audio is always with the character off camera and we're only ever watching the one that's listening. When that person talks we cut back to the previous talker while he listens. There are options, but please do not try to cut frankentstein dialog on your first short. You have much bigger picture issues you need to be focusing on.
 
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Synia said:
Exactly,

@Harmonica: This problem you described shouldn't even exist at all.

If take 7 has the best visual and take 5 have the best sound, you should keep on shooting until you get a take where the actor acted as good as they did in take 7, and sounds as good as they did in take 5. Even if it takes an hour to get one sentence right, it'll still be quicker and more natural than doing it in post.
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Indeed...
Somehow you are looking for problems that don't exist and then you try to fix it with the most difficult solution there is...

If the visuals or the sound s#cks, the whole take s#cks.

Besides that: other people already mentioned how you can edit things when audio and visuals don't match. (Don't try to match it, but show something else :P ).
If you didn't take 6 months to try to find software, you could've already been playing with editing dialogue :P

(Maybe I should become a teacher ;) )

Go watch 'Ed Wood' by Tim Burton: it's fun, it's entertaining and educational: it shows both how enthousiasm get's things done and how films are not properly made :lol:
 
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I know, it's just I really wanted to make sure I got the right software, and didn't want to buy something that wasn't what I needed, and regret it. But I know what I want now, Adobe Creative Suite, and will get it, once I find a good seller. I have to get an outdated one since my computer cannot handle the current. I recently acquired Imovie for now, and have started playing around with that.

And yes I can cut away, in those takes when I need too. But as far as my shot list goes, I already have a list of when I wanted to cut away from the speaking actors faces, and why. I can do that to fix problems in post as well, just so long as the cutaways don't feel like they are coming, at a wrong or odd time to the storytelling and all.
 
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